Veteran Vegan, Newly Declared Atheist

[Robinwomb]

Hi everyone!

I should start by saying I have always really been an atheist, but for many years tried to fit in society and really tried to believe in this God people are gung ho about. I went to church, prayed, tried out all kinds of religious organizations and talked to friends who were Jewish, Muslim, Jehovah's Witness, you name it. I even went through a Celebrate Recovery program some time ago. I wanted to believe, wanted to have this faith others seemed to have. But deep down I knew I really didn't believe in God or any higher "being".

I went vegan in February 2011 after I had begun to explore not only where my food comes from but the issue of world hunger. It just made so much sense that eating only plants is far more sustainable to our planet...our environment, our health, economically. I had come upon veganism "accidentally" while reading Micheal Pollan's book "The Omnivore's Dilemma". It was funny that I found myself disagreeing with much of what Mr. Pollan was saying (and what he still preaches), and more so agreed with what I began to research about veganism. I was so strongly moved by what I learned that I spent about a week reading a few books on vegan nutrition and lifestyle and picked a date to go vegan. I gave myself a week to wean off Greek yogurt. I was intolerant to all other dairy for years prior and was already consuming almond and soy milk in place of dairy, and I was already deathly afraid of cheese because it had made me so sick in the past. I was never a huge meat eater and beans were already a staple for years, so it was really just a matter of letting go of eggs, fish, and stuff like commericial breads and other products with hidden animal ingredients. I never did the vegetarian thing. I went straight to vegan and I have thrived this way! It has been just over five years now and I love being vegan as much as I did in the beginning, if not more!

The challenge came with realizing that the Christian church does not look favorably on veganism or the rights of nonhuman sentient beings. I encountered the most opposition to my strong vegan ideals there. I found so much contradiction in the bible, something I had found before but tried not to think about it too much. now I could no longer ignore it. I still went to church for a long time and pretended. My partner whom I have been with for 18 years is still an omni though mostly vegetarian and is also a fundamentalist Christian, so I mostly pretended for his benefit. My mother is a Benedictine nun so I pretended for her too. But it starts to get to a person to deny who they are and pretend in order to be loved and accepted. If I could stand up so boldly and declare my veganism, why couldn't I do the same with atheism? The truth is, atheism is far less acceptable in society than veganism. It is almost a dirty word.

I finally did declare it to my Mom and partner two months ago and it has not been pretty. My partner still doesn't quite grasp it and denies it. He continuously asks if I believe in God and then gets upset when I say no. It is a hard place to be, and I do think about leaving him. I am a fiercely independent person, very much an introvert, suffer with some social anxiety (but somehow managed to do some public animal rights activism from 2013-2014 by leafleting and tabling colleges). It is sometimes a dream yet frightening to think of living on my own again, and I don't even know how to begin to unravel myself from a long term relationship. He is very dependent on me. I am the bread winner and he is on disability. It is a tricky situation.

And so here I am. I couldn't believe it when I saw this forum! I have not been happy with some of the other vegan forums I have participated in as of late. I needed a safer place to come to explore these issues. And just a warning, I tend to post long entries. I need to learn to be more short and sweet, in real life as well as here lol. Nice to meet you all!

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome Robin, great intro! Nice to meet you too.

I finally did declare it to my Mom and partner two months ago and it has not been pretty. My partner still doesn't quite grasp it and denies it. He continuously asks if I believe in God and then gets upset when I say no. It is a hard place to be, and I do think about leaving him.

People change a lot in 18 years (at least, if they're making progress as they should be in life by learning), it's impossible to expect most relationships to stand that kind of change (and they should not). You're such different people now that it probably would be better for both of your based on what you're saying, since it causes him anxiety too.

He is very dependent on me. I am the bread winner and he is on disability. It is a tricky situation.

Does his disability cover most of his living expenses, or are there social programs where you live to help him?

I don't believe it's right to be a prisoner to those situations; you can do so much more good in life. You don't belong to anybody.

I have not been happy with some of the other vegan forums I have participated in as of late.

What have you encountered elsewhere? What other forums did you try, and why were they unsatisfying? It's interesting to learn people's perspectives on the competition.

[Robinwomb]

Thanks for the welcome brimstoneSalad!

My partner gets enough assistance to cover his medical expenses, but not for living arrangements. I do help a lot with those expenses and I buy a lot of what he eats (all vegan because I do not buy nonvegan products). He does get a tiny bit of assistance for food but it is laughable how little it is. His parents help him out also but they are in their 80s and having health problems of their own.

Though we have lived together for a long time, we are not married because he would lose even more benefits in that arrangement. But also because I am hesitant about marrying and binding myself into any relationship. It's a long story, more complicated than a forum reply box could handle.

We are very different than we once were. We share some common interests and ideals but for the most part our core beliefs are very different. THAT is the part that is so hard now. He is good to me, kind and loving and would give his life for me. I have very little of that in my life, very few friends and fewer family and members of my immediate family all suffer with profound mental illness that makes it hard to be close to them (sister has schizophrenia, Mom has multiple personality disorder and other issues, Dad has PTSD, schizoid personality disorder, general anxiety, anger issues). It is hard for me to make friends, and I have my own mental health issues. Life is a struggle. So in some ways it is hard to think of letting go of our relationship because he does fill some of that void. In an ideal situation I would live in an all vegan household and be free to express my atheism and be totally myself. in my current living arrangement I am somewhat repressed as far as being open about my atheism, though there is far more leeway as far as my veganism. I am also insecure in my job. I finished college a few years ago (I am a late bloomer being 43 now) and landed my first professional job as a medical coder shortly after that. It is an excellent job with good pay, but I am always worried that I could be doing a lot more or that I am making errors and I am always stressed. I handle very expensive surgery and chemotherapy charges. I am constantly being audited internally and externally. There is a lot of pressure there.

So the whole idea of living in my own place is both pleasing and terrifying. I lived on my own before but it's been a long time. I am also worried about what it would do to my partner as far as his mental state. Not only is he dependent on me financially, but he has very few social contacts either and relies on me a LOT for his emotional health. Sometimes the one thread that keeps us bonded is that we fill this lonely void that would be there otherwise. I just haven't come to a tipping point of being totally ready to leave, but more and more i move toward that direction. I guess it is a two way street.

As far as other vegan forums, the one I have been involved with most for the past few years is a site owned by a nonvegan group and they provide articles for the front page that are actually belittling to vegetarians/vegans. I used to be a moderator there, and the politics are shaky. Other vegan forums have simply died out and that is a shame, but I suppose it is part of life online. Often vegan forums don't last long because newcomers post with questions and then never return and so a community doesn't really take off. It is just a bunch of strangers asking questions and moving on. I still post around and visit old forums I have been a member of, but the sense of community just isn't there. or there is a tight knit community that is hard to break into and be welcomed. Some of this perception could be my own though. I have a lot of social anxiety and an avoidant personality disorder, and even online interactions are difficult for me. It is easy for me to become emotionally attached to people on a one on one basis but also hard to get to know people and get involved in the everyday social interactions too which is probably why I am largely ignored. I am really clueless when it comes to the small talk, and engaging others.

This forum attracted me in that some more serious discussions are taking place, which tends to lack on other social vegan forums. I think a balance of social community and serious discussion is the way to go!

I take it this forum is slower moving as far as new threads and responses. Is this a newer forum or has it been around for a while? I need to have a bigger look when I get some more time.

[Robinwomb]

I should also mention that I have been going to some groups in real life. I am involved with a Vegan Meetup group in my city and in fact am going to a potluck today (my fifth Meetup). I went to a Free Thinkers atheist meeting a month ago and met a few people there. I was going to go again this last weekend (they meet once per month for discussion and a speaker presentation), but I have been exhausted with thyroid issues I am working on getting straightened out and I was unable to get to it last weekend. I finally got some medical tests and a new prescription so I can get my energy level back up to par. It's been a nightmarish month as far as exhaustion limiting what I am able to do (I am usually high energy and extremely active). I also had my B12 and hemoglobin checked to cover all my bases and thankfully those are very healthy and smack in the middle of normal range. My one nemesis is my thyroid which has been an issue for 27 years. :/

At any rate I am really trying to meet people in real life where I can feel accepted for what I strongly believe in (or don't believe if you will). It's refreshing to be able to have open discussions somewhere, and just be myself without a barage of judgments and defensive comments from religious omnivores lol. Challenge is good sometimes though. I did some tabling and leafleting as a vegan activist in 2013 and it was a huge challenge to my shyness/social anxiety but also really helped me overcome fears and realize what I am capable of. It's just that some days I am tired and don't want to deal with a bunch of bull****.

My partner is not thrilled about me being involved in these groups and he worries I will lose interest in him. He already "prays" for me because he thinks I am going to this hell I don't believe in. I don't invite him to the groups because I think it would be too overwhelming for him, though I went to his church and put up with it for 18 years to please him. At one point I tried other churches but I knew deep down none of it was for me. He has known for quite some time I was unhappy with the church we were going to. And ironically he has avoided getting too involved in his church because he is ashamed of his disabilities (one of them is stigmatized especially in the religious community). There is just so much to unravel and deal with it is very overwhelming. Very.

[garrethdsouza]

Hi. Having a good group for socializing is to an extent one of the major benefits of religion. It has been demonstrated
https://scholar.google.co.in/scholar?cluster=5880574138649514026&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1

And in my experience it's true for atheism as well, not where you have merely serious discussions about atheism but make regular friends and socialize. That generally takes a bit of time/persistence for getting familiar with folks in that area. I guess it would apply to veganism as well.

Regarding other groups, skeptic vegan discussion group and effective animal activism are two pretty good ones on facebook. Though more veganism centric, not as much atheist centric.

[Robinwomb]

Thanks Brian for those links! Going to check them out soon!

[garrethdsouza]

Sure thing Stella!

BTW don't confuse skeptic vegan discussion group with vegan skeptics. I suggested the former.

[brimstoneSalad]

As far as other vegan forums, the one I have been involved with most for the past few years is a site owned by a nonvegan group and they provide articles for the front page that are actually belittling to vegetarians/vegans. I used to be a moderator there, and the politics are shaky.

The Huddler site, right? That's not surprising.

I know a lot of people left when the sight was sold.

I take it this forum is slower moving as far as new threads and responses. Is this a newer forum or has it been around for a while? I need to have a bigger look when I get some more time.

It's a fairly mature forum, just a lot less small talk, and a lot more philosophical conversation and debate, but only a few threads going on at a time.

[Nilesh]

welcome


and you do write long answers


I loved the details.