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Kanade
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Hello everyone

Post by Kanade »

Hello my name is Mark Dijkhuis although i mostly go by the username Kanade online.

I'm an atheist, unlike other i don't really come from a religious background nor was a religious myself so there isn't really any backstory here.

I used to be an avid meat eater and saw animal rights activists as a bunch of whiny idiots, in fact you could pretty much say meat was my religion. However when i started studying for my zoology degree i started changing how i thought about animals, i now realized how incredibly social and complex they are and after reading Frans de Waals books on animal morality i decided to stand up and educate people about animal rights.

However i wasn't there yet, despite me trying to stand up for animal welfare there was still one more problem, my love for meat. Despite the fact that i knew what animals go through in factory farms, despite the fact that i knew how much suffering they can get, i could not bring myself to stop eating meat. In fact i tried literally every single meat argument there was. Protein argument, Animals eat other animals argument, animals cannot reason argument. But deep down i knew these where bad arguments, not only was i being dishonest with myself but i was a hypocrite. But now much later into the present i'm a much different person. I first started with vegetarianism, then octo-vegetarianism and eventually dropped the eggs and became vegan and i've never felt this healthy before.

I work volunteer for a farm that takes care of abandoned cattle and poultry that either escaped from slaughterhouses or where given to us because they where unwanted and i also do charity work for homeless shelters. Either way i think this looks like a great community that combines secular morality and animal rights so i look forward to discussing more.
“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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TheVeganAtheist
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Hi Mark, welcome to the forum, and for telling your story. Just curious if you have ideas on how to advocate to avid meat eaters, since you battled that personally. How long have you been vegan?
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Kanade
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Kanade »

I think the most efficient way to argue is through the Socratic method, keep asking questions about his moral beliefs until you find an internal contradiction within that belief and use that to argue in favor of animal rights.

Let's say for example that the meat-eater you're arguing with supports the view of minimizing suffering, ask him what the criteria to him his to say who's suffering needs to be minimized. If he says those that can suffer and feel pain you already can reason with him that animals meet this criteria. I think this way of reasoning is the most efficient one because actually stimulates critical thinking.

What you should not do however in my opinion is attacking the persons actions of eating meat or using anti-meat rhetoric like "eating an animal's corpse", when you direct the argument towards the actions of the meat eater the meat eater will feel antagonized and thus he will try to defend his position thus stimulating confirmation bias.
“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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TheVeganAtheist
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

how about if the response the meat eater gives you is one of the following:

1) "i don't believe animals can suffer"
2) "sure factory farming is bad, but i eat ethically raised and slaughtered animals"
3) "I love my meat and I don't care about bambi"
4) "we are at the top of the food chain. Something has to die for us to live"
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Kanade
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Kanade »

For the first one i would give him scientific evidence that they do and shift the burden of proof to them to rebut these sources.

For the other three i would probably ask the person if he applies those to others such as humans or different races and then ask him what his criteria is in order for something to deserve the right to life.

Also i forgot to answer your latter question. I've been vegan since last year.
“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Hi Mark,

Great intro, welcome to the forum!

Is the cow in your avatar a picture from your sanctuary?
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Kanade
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Kanade »

brimstoneSalad wrote:Hi Mark,

Great intro, welcome to the forum!

Is the cow in your avatar a picture from your sanctuary?
Yes, her name is Maud and she's about 4-5 weeks now.
“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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TheVeganAtheist
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

just curious. This farm/sanctuary you work at. Are the owners/volunteers vegan? Is it a sanctuary? What do they do with the animals?
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Kanade
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Kanade »

TheVeganAtheist wrote:just curious. This farm/sanctuary you work at. Are the owners/volunteers vegan? Is it a sanctuary? What do they do with the animals?
The owner is, some are just vegetarian and some eat meat. It's a sanctuary where the cows can live their old days without worrying about being used for meat, milk or any other product. Most of the cows here grow as old as 20-25
“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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