Grey Areas & Campaign Allies

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NonZeroSum
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Grey Areas & Campaign Allies

Post by NonZeroSum » Wed May 08, 2019 8:53 pm

What do people think about 3 wiki pages on the below? Grey areas are issues in line with many vegan's ethics & campaign allies are issues which we may not view as ethical, but may find useful to collaborate with to succeed in our campaign goals. Can also debate here to come to a consensus on what should go on the wiki. Do you disagree with where I've placed any of the issues on the list?

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Vegan Grey Areas

In Short

Understandable circumstances:
• Eating Disorders
• Chronic Disease / Multiple Food Allergies
• Pest Prevention
• Survival

Some might be surprised that some vegans support:
• Wildlife Management
• Non-intrusive beekeeping
• Freeganism
• Rescued Animals
• Lab Grown Meat

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Animal Liberation Common Allies

Groups/movements we may be able to offer mutual support to in achieving our campaign goals.

In Short

Human rights:
• Labor movement
• Anti-Racism / Apartheid
• Anti-Sexism / Civil rights
• Indigenous land rights / Civil investment

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Animal Liberation Contentious Allies

Groups/movements that don't live up to our ethical standard, but who we may find useful to collaborate with to achieve our campaign goals.

In Short

Animal rights legislation:
• More expensive high welfare regulation
• Speceisist slaughter/hunting abolition

Wildlife habitat expansion:
• Invasive species hunting/fishing
• Wild animal farming
• Foxhound drag hunt racecourse & Bloodhound hunting
• Greyhound hunting
• Ferreting
• Falconry

Low Impact Lifestyle:
• Localvore
• Reducitarian

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Last edited by NonZeroSum on Thu May 09, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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brimstoneSalad
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Post by brimstoneSalad » Thu May 09, 2019 1:09 am

It's a great idea, definitely. Generally agree with what you have going here.
Sorry I haven't had much time lately.

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NonZeroSum
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Post by NonZeroSum » Thu May 09, 2019 4:47 am

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:09 am
It's a great idea, definitely. Generally agree with what you have going here.
Sorry I haven't had much time lately.
Aye it's all good, no point trying to force inspiration with the wiki. That's why picked this, as it's just something anyone can relate their thought processes to and discuss.
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NonZeroSum
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Post by NonZeroSum » Wed May 15, 2019 6:03 am

Enjoying writing these. Won't copy all the text over for google leading people here and not the wiki, but please quote parts if anyone would like to discuss:

Common Allies

Contentious Allies

Vegan Grey Areas | Talk Page - Just copy & paste of reddit chatter so far.

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What are some perspectives that can be gained from engaging with reducitarians and vegetarians?:

Reducitarians

More psychologically inviting, but does the label long term hinder people from ever making concrete steps? And do we lessen the chance of making new vegans who will get organized and make some of the next big innovative differences?


Vegetarians

Some vegans & mostly vegans stick with vegetarian to distance themselves from detrimental vegan activists.

Them helping us tailor our advocacy to people eating meat against their own religious code.

Us helping them see how the the practical inclusion of animal products as ceremonial today should be avoided for not holding the same historical context.

_
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Post by brimstoneSalad » Wed May 22, 2019 5:31 pm

Nice work!

Where it says "no compromise" comes off as kind of a command (I know it's kind of shorthand, but it doesn't read well).

Beyond that, I think the native stuff is a little more complex.
For example, energy infrastructure is often a lesser of evils vs. coal and oil (like natural gas pipelines) and it's contentious to oppose those.

"Also it's important to respect and fight to uphold what little autonomous rights were given to indigenous communities because of the harms society committed against them in numerous ways and still to this day."

I don't think that's a strong argument when we're talking about animal suffering vs. political propriety or culture. Two wrongs don't make a right.
It might be better to focus on the practical barriers to integration and sustenance that many native people face, and link to the native peoples article (wiki/index.php/Native_Peoples) where that can be expanded upon more if necessary.

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Post by NonZeroSum » Thu May 23, 2019 5:21 am

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:31 pm
Where it says "no compromise" comes off as kind of a command (I know it's kind of shorthand, but it doesn't read well).
Fair point, so "we don't need to compromise with...".
brimstoneSalad wrote:Beyond that, I think the native stuff is a little more complex.
For example, energy infrastructure is often a lesser of evils vs. coal and oil (like natural gas pipelines) and it's contentious to oppose those.
How about:

"Advocate for treaty rights to reject coal, oil or extreme energy extraction projects because they shouldn't be forced to bring further climate chaos or ecological destruction on themselves. [8]"
brimstoneSalad wrote:I don't think that's a strong argument when we're talking about animal suffering vs. political propriety or culture. Two wrongs don't make a right.
It might be better to focus on the practical barriers to integration and sustenance that many native people face, and link to the native peoples article (http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/inde ... ve_Peoples) where that can be expanded upon more if necessary.
I wanted to explain about in certain instances not risking destabilizing legal president, because of what little autonomous rights that help industries in the area, pale in comparison to the lack of government investment in schools, utilities, etc. Over the years. But just took it out for now, probs best to expand on the native peoples page.
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brimstoneSalad
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Post by brimstoneSalad » Thu May 23, 2019 1:41 pm

Looks good, yes I think the native peoples page is the best place to expand on that.

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