Help, I can't stop supporting genocide!

[Blueper]

Hey guys!

So, let's get the religious stuff out of the way quick, because it's no longer a significant cause of conflict in my life. I was raised Catholic but renounced the faith when I was 16 because of the wisdom passed down by some close friends and prominent figures (namely Hitchens). As of now, I'm very comfortable with where I stand spiritually. I love having conversations with religious people about their faith, but admittedly I have a bit of trouble keeping my voice quiet and comforting.

Now for the interesting bit: For the first 18 years of my life, I ate copious amounts of meats with no moral reservation. I had heard some vegans argue for a vegan diet before, but for one reason or another I cast them to the wayside as crazy people who didn't know how the world worked (I did think this way about some of the first Atheist arguments I heard as well, now that I think about it). For some reason, though, when I stumbled upon VA's youtube channel, my perspective was immediately altered. I was filled with guilt and disgust and decided that from then on, I would never eat another meat or dairy product...
...I lasted one day.
My body felt like it was going through withdrawal. I had never given it much thought before, but that might have been the first day of my cognizant life where I didn't consume meat. Since then, I've given veganism a few more tries, each only slightly more successful than the last. Over time, I grew to accept my diet as morally acceptable, albeit morally inferior to veganism, and I entered a phase of apathy, consuming as much red meat as my heart desired (irony intended).
I am now in my second year of college. Recently, a close friend of mine converted to veganism. She did so over the course of a day and never looked back, even though as far as I could tell, she had eaten as much meat as I did in early life. This sparked a new desire to change my diet. After all, If she can do it, why can't I?

And that's where I am now. I eat meat regularly. I recognize the moral inferiority of a meat-heavy diet, I still feel that eating meat is morally acceptable but not desirable, and I am trying to gradually cut down on meats until I am ready to remove them from my diet altogether. My main struggle as of now is finding a way to get the amount of protein I am used to without meat. I usually don't feel like I've eaten enough until I eat meat. I don't have enough time to regularly prepare vegan meals (I often have to resort to fast food or GrubHub), so if anyone is aware of a quick, easy, and tasty vegan staple that I would benefit from including in my diet, please let me know

Thank you for reading...sorry if this was a bit rambly. I just kinda threw my thoughts out there as they came.
Thank you for welcoming me to this community. I'm happy to be here.

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome, I'm glad to help.

What does "morally acceptable" mean? Do you just mean that most people accept it? If so, that's a very subjective criterion. Like "Young Earth creationism is factually acceptable, but not factually right" because people accept those who believe it to be fact, or because many people accept it as fact. (That kind of language seems to condone complacency, so the word usage is concerning.)
If you mean something else, please clarify.

Anyway, you're probably craving protein. There's a lot of bad advice on the internet that discourages vegans from eating protein. What did you replace meat with?

Here are a few important points:

1. You need to eat more volume (plant products are less dense). This is a common mistake. Double the amount of food on your plate, at least. Then double it again if you need to.

If you replace meat with broccoli or other green veggies, you need to eat about 2.5 kilograms of broccoli a day. No less. That's a lot of broccoli. About 26 cups.
That's a kind of crazy amount of food. Also really expensive (although it's probably the healthiest diet you can have)

This is why I encourage people to replace meat with beans and legumes, which you only have to eat about 600 - 700 grams of, which for beans is about 4 cups. Easy.


2. You can't replace meat with cereal grains and fruits (these are high in starch, and relatively low in protein)

Contrary to health claims by quacks like McDougall or Doug Graham, you can't just eat starches and/or fruit. We need protein, and cereal grains and fruit are lacking in those -- particularly rice, which has almost no protein.


3. Typical salads are not food.

Salads are based on vegetables, which have protein in them, but a salad itself isn't really food. They're just a bunch of air and oil.

Try cooking leaves, and they shrink up to reveal their true size (vegetables should generally be eaten cooked).
A salad is like a bowl of popcorn, a fluffed up bowl of almost nothing but the oil and salt drizzled on it.



So, your best staple will be beans, which will cost a little over a dollar a day.

Buy bags of dried beans from the grocery store. They can be soaked and cooked in the microwave pretty easily. And, of course, lots of spices to make them delicious.
I lived on beans once upon a time out of a dorm room with a microwave.


Can you break down what else you've been eating vegan?

[miniboes]

And, of course, lots of spices to make them delicious.?

Which spices do you recommend?
I really like oregano, cinnamon and basil, but that's about it.

[brimstoneSalad]

And, of course, lots of spices to make them delicious.?

Which spices do you recommend?
I really like oregano, cinnamon and basil, but that's about it.

I recommend spices that are cheap and have strong flavor for the cost.

Oregano is good, IF you can get it cheap. Cumin, and curry powder are also good IF you can find them cheap.

Garlic powder is a good one, which is usually pretty cheap, and widely enjoyed. Black pepper is usually cheap and widely available. Salt, of course, or low sodium salt (which has added potassium) if you can find that and don't mind the taste.

Lemon juice is a good option for adding sourness, which will also tend to increase the bioavailability of nutrients. Get it in bottles, rather than from fresh lemons, for a better value (and more convenience).

If you like hot spice, go for the super hot sauce, and just add a little bit. Sriracha is usually a pretty good value for the cost, and adds an assortment of flavors.

Other good flavors, which also add a lot of nutrition are tomato paste, and blackstrap molasses.

[Blueper]

Thanks so much for responding!

Welcome, I'm glad to help.

What does "morally acceptable" mean? Do you just mean that most people accept it? If so, that's a very subjective criterion. Like "Young Earth creationism is factually acceptable, but not factually right" because people accept those who believe it to be fact, or because many people accept it as fact. (That kind of language seems to condone complacency, so the word usage is concerning.)
If you mean something else, please clarify.

...

Anyway, you're probably craving protein. There's a lot of bad advice on the internet that discourages vegans from eating protein. What did you replace meat with?

Here are a few important points:

1. You need to eat more volume (plant products are less dense). This is a common mistake. Double the amount of food on your plate, at least. Then double it again if you need to.

Can you break down what else you've been eating vegan?

What I mean by that is while there are better alternatives out there (ie veganism), I still wouldn't call somebody immoral for eating meat. I think of it like buying stocks in arms manufacturers. Yeah, you're indirectly supporting some pretty gross stuff, but you're not the one killing people. It would be better if you could make money trading more ethical stocks, but if the arms market is all you know, it's understandable why you'd want to keep trading the sketchier ones. That's kind of where I am right now. I want to switch up my dietary portfolio, but every time I do, I keep losing metaphorical money (and literal money...as you said, vegan diets can be expensive )

...

Yeah, the first time I tried it I basically ate exclusively pasta...needless to say my, body didn't like that very much.

I had more success with cauliflower, broccoli, and kidney beans. I would buy them frozen/canned and just toss them in the microwave. Not the tastiest meal but it's all I really had time for.

Thank you so much for the advice I'm going grocery shopping tomorrow, so I'll buy all vegan stuff and give it another whirl.

EDIT: turns out I don't know how to forum...oops.

[brimstoneSalad]

What I mean by that is while there are better alternatives out there (ie veganism), I still wouldn't call somebody immoral for eating meat. I think of it like buying stocks in arms manufacturers. Yeah, you're indirectly supporting some pretty gross stuff, but you're not the one killing people.

Those are both immoral actions. Even though you aren't directly killing people with your own hands, you are causing more people to die by your actions, which is really all that matters.

In most of these cases, you are actually more responsible for it than those pulling the trigger.

Consider the hitman and mob boss scenario; if the hitman refuses, the mob boss will hire somebody else -- the mark is still killed. If the mob boss isn't paying for the hit, nobody will be killed. It's ultimately the one funding the endeavor that's most responsible; everything else is interchangeable.

It would be better if you could make money trading more ethical stocks, but if the arms market is all you know, it's understandable why you'd want to keep trading the sketchier ones.

If you would die of starvation on the streets otherwise, sure. It's still harming others, but you have an excuse in that it's self preservation.
This is why it's not wrong for people in third world countries to eat meat, or for lions in the wild -- they don't have a choice.

But if the stock trade means you buy a nicer car, you are absolutely behaving immorally, in getting something completely unnecessary and harming others to do it.
The same with human beings in the first world who have other healthier options and choose to eat meat instead.

Eating meat is one of many immoral actions that people do in the world today. That's not to say that vegans are automatically moral -- it's just one less immoral thing that we do. We of course can't stop there and say "if you're a vegan, you're a good person" because you might be investing in the arms trade, or some other terrible thing. But it's an important step.

Yeah, the first time I tried it I basically ate exclusively pasta...needless to say my, body didn't like that very much.

Yeah, that's no good.

Have you tried cronometer?
https://cronometer.com/

It's a great way to balance your diet, and make sure you're getting everything you need.

I had more success with cauliflower, broccoli, and kidney beans. I would buy them frozen/canned and just toss them in the microwave. Not the tastiest meal but it's all I really had time for.

That's much better. The trick is the bulk in veggies. I recommend eating about a pound of veggies a day, and sticking to mainly beans other than that, with a moderate amount of whole grain to go with it. Don't be afraid of fat either! It's filling, and as long as it's healthy fat, it's fine. Choose nuts, seeds, and canola oil.

[Blueper]

Consider the hitman and mob boss scenario; if the hitman refuses, the mob boss will hire somebody else -- the mark is still killed. If the mob boss isn't paying for the hit, nobody will be killed. It's ultimately the one funding the endeavor that's most responsible; everything else is interchangeable.

hmm...I never thought about it that way...That does make sense though.

Yeah, the first time I tried it I basically ate exclusively pasta...needless to say my, body didn't like that very much.

Yeah, that's no good.

Have you tried cronometer?
https://cronometer.com/

It's a great way to balance your diet, and make sure you're getting everything you need.

Oh wow. That's beautiful! Thank you. I'm definitely going to start using this.

[Adien22]

Why does no one ever talk about quinoa? Quinoa is packed full of almost the same types of protein as meat. It's super delicious and I personally think it's pretty filling. It's quick and easy to make too.

[brimstoneSalad]

Why does no one ever talk about quinoa? Quinoa is packed full of almost the same types of protein as meat. It's super delicious and I personally think it's pretty filling. It's quick and easy to make too.

It's very expensive for the amount of protein it provides, and it's of questionable environmental sustainability since it has mostly only been grown in a specific region.

New cultivars are expanding its growing region, which are in turn making it cheaper, but it will take time to be a particularly viable staple.

Also, in nutritional terms, as many grains, it's a bit high in methionine (bad protein) and a bit low in lysine. That is, the fact that the protein is similar to meat may make it less healthy than beans and legumes, which are lower in methionine and higher in lysine.

[Adien22]

Gotcha lol I didn't know that. Thank you for the knowledge