Atheists and Religious Celebrations/Festivals

[EquALLity]

How do you guys (the atheists) feel about participating in religious related events that may seem secular on the surface level? And what about things like Bat/Bar Mitzvahs?

For example, this week, there is a carnival in my town that is a fundraiser for some religious school and/or the church associated with it (interestingly, the school I went to in pre-k and the church I used to go to). The carnival itself is secular, but I haven't been there in a few years because I didn't want to give money to the Catholic Church.
Also, another thing about the carnival that bothers me is that there is a game where you can win bagged goldfish. But doing other things and avoiding that might be good for animals...
I don't know. What do you guys think?

Then, what about things like Bat Mitzvahs? Do you go and subtly condone and celebrate religion, or do you refuse to go because you don't want to do that?

[brimstoneSalad]

I wouldn't feel comfortable about a fundraiser, but I don't have any problem going to other events as long as my money isn't going to a church.

[PsYcHo]

Depends. If the carnival has fun things to do, I would go. If you went to a totally secular fair, the vendors you give money to may be religious, and donate their proceeds to a church, but as long as you enjoyed your goods/services, their money is theirs to use as they wish. If it were a function to raise money for something like sending missionaries to Africa to convert the "heathens" (this is a real thing a church I went to as a child did), then I wouldn't support it. Feeding the homeless or any other humanitarian type aid is fine by me though.

As far as going to a Bat Mitzvah, I assume someone you care about is the recipient. (It would be kinda weird if you were just wandering into various religious functions...) Attending their imaginary friend party is not condoning religion, but it would have to be a really good friend or family member to get me to attend. Or an open bar.

[PsYcHo]

So here's a fun one. I will be attending a funeral with my spouse. I do not know the deceased, but they were close as children. The deceased's family is half Christian (mother's side), half Muslim (father's side). At this point I would open my own bake sale to send Missionaries to Africa if I could get out of this. (But the darker side of me thinks with a little bourbon, watching the interactions of the two families, who already hate each other, could be worth it. )

[EquALLity]

So here's a fun one. I will be attending a funeral with my spouse. I do not know the deceased, but they were close as children. The deceased's family is half Christian (mother's side), half Muslim (father's side). At this point I would open my own bake sale to send Missionaries to Africa if I could get out of this. (But the darker side of me thinks with a little bourbon, watching the interactions of the two families, who already hate each other, could be worth it. )

A Christian and Muslim split, wow.
Tell us if they start a holy war.

[Insert name here]

So here's a fun one. I will be attending a funeral with my spouse. I do not know the deceased, but they were close as children. The deceased's family is half Christian (mother's side), half Muslim (father's side). At this point I would open my own bake sale to send Missionaries to Africa if I could get out of this. (But the darker side of me thinks with a little bourbon, watching the interactions of the two families, who already hate each other, could be worth it. )

Wow, well I hope you find some amusement there, otherwise it would be quite boring for you.

[EquALLity]

I'm in one of these situations now, and it's a bit more complicated than usual.

I have a friend who's having a religious celebration in which she officially starts wearing the hijab. Even though I think the hijab is misogynistic and dumb, I wouldn't not go because of that.

However, I've had a lot of serious discussions with this person, and in one of them she said that she wouldn't go to a gay wedding. We have mutual friends who are gay. If she wouldn't go to her friend's wedding, a celebration of love, because it involves two women, and she wouldn't go because of her religion... Why would I go to a celebration of that very religion?

But would not going to more harm than good? This would actually be the last time I'd see her until she moves to Michigan. And she's gotten more religious recently, so I don't want to polarize it more. It probably wouldn't convince her to be tolerant of gay people if I did something like that, it would just likely upset her and make her feel more isolated as a Muslim.

What do you guys think?

[Red]

I have a friend who's having a religious celebration in which she officially starts wearing the hijab. Even though I think the hijab is misogynistic and dumb, I wouldn't not go because of that.

You mean that's not a reason you won't go?

However, I've had a lot of serious discussions with this person, and in one of them she said that she wouldn't go to a gay wedding. We have mutual friends who are gay. If she wouldn't go to her friend's wedding, a celebration of love, because it involves two women, and she wouldn't go because of her religion... Why would I go to a celebration of that very religion?

Well, fuck her, I guess.

But would not going to more harm than good? This would actually be the last time I'd see her until she moves to Michigan. And she's gotten more religious recently, so I don't want to polarize it more. It probably wouldn't convince her to be tolerant of gay people if I did something like that, it would just likely upset her and make her feel more isolated as a Muslim.

Politely decline, tell her you have some things you have to do (even if you're just bullshitting), tell her to call you, problem solved.

What do you guys think?

One of the biggest first world problems ever.

[EquALLity]

You mean that's not a reason you won't go?

I wouldn't not go because of that, because all religions are misogynistic and dumb. Singling out Islam and not going out because of that just because it's Islam (and not because of that she wouldn't go to a celebration of gay love) I think would be unreasonable.

I've talked to her in the past about the hijab being sexist, and her reply was basically that some men wear head clothing as well, and her idea in wearing it is that people should care more about your brains than looks. Of course, most Muslim men don't wear head clothing, and I still don't agree with the hijab.

Well, fuck her, I guess.

Yeah... Mixed feelings. I don't think it's a good idea to disassociate with people because of views like that when you can open their minds. I think just breaking things off further isolates them in their religiosity and makes things worse, so I wouldn't do it, as much as I hate the views (in most cases, like provided the person is generally rational and good).

Politely decline, tell her you have some things you have to do (even if you're just bullshitting), tell her to call you, problem solved.

The way I see it, there were two options:

1) Just go.
2) Don't go and tell her the honest reason why.

If I didn't go but told her I was busy, there'd be no point. I wouldn't potentially change her mind about anything.

I actually ended up not going anyway because I wasn't able to get a ride. Thanks for your input though!

[brimstoneSalad]

Of course this has passed now, but:

Since she wouldn't support a gay friend's wedding, assuming she would even be friends with somebody who was gay, she shouldn't expect you to support her in this.

If you went, that would arguably make you the "bigger person" (explaining that you will support a friend even if you disagree, and telling her she should do the same in attending a gay wedding), it might make her rethink things (but probably not).

I don't usually recommend being "friends" with fundamentalists. Most people don't understand what friendship is. Being nice to them and communicating with them, sure, but friendship means going out of your way to hang out with them outside of work/school and generally putting a lot of effort into the relationship. Such effort will usually not bear proportional returns. So, I wouldn't go, but mostly because it's not effective activism. Friendship evangelism is pretty useless. The important thing is to be a "friendly acquaintance" at work and school, not to be a proper "friend" in terms of spending time and energy on social engagement.