The Golem Effect

[Red]

I've been thinking about this phenomena lately, and I've been worried that I may have been taking part in it.

It all started when I saw this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu0RTBrPn60&t=1436s

TLDW

Basically, the video was about street harassment (is that still relevant?), and I've been thinking, should we be setting our standards so low for these women? I know that if we really do care about making a positive difference, shit like this should be put on the back burner, but just for the sake of arguing, do you think the Golem effect has anything to do with this? I believe that if women are going to deal with street harassment, we should have high expectations for them if we want them to overcome it. We can't just tell people not to do it, because chances are, people are just still going to do it. It's the same thing with rape, but we all know what I think about that.

Another thing I want to note is the human race. I do believe that most people aren't really all that smart, and most people aren't particularly good at anything, but I wonder if me believing this has any effect. I mean of course, I'm not affecting anyone by thinking it, but the notion is held by a lot of people (even stupid people), so do you think that believing the human race is stupid a bad thing to do? I mean, of course some stupid people think they're smart (dunning kruger), and will reject the notion that they are stupid, but who knows? If we believe that people are smart, I think we may improve as a species. I'm not saying we have fixed intelligence levels.

Anyways, any thoughts?

[brimstoneSalad]

It has more to do with you expecting less of others. So, thinking others are stupid may cause you to expect less of them, which over time will cause them to underperform relative to their potentials, and think less (maybe you spend more time explaining something because you think the person is stupid, and the person never gets the chance to exercise his or her own mind).

Coddling is another issue, and causes sensitivities on its own. Take away the worst of the cat calling, and people will get more sensitive to the most mild. It tends to be a slippery slope.

[Red]

It has more to do with you expecting less of others. So, thinking others are stupid may cause you to expect less of them, which over time will cause them to underperform relative to their potentials, and think less (maybe you spend more time explaining something because you think the person is stupid, and the person never gets the chance to exercise his or her own mind).

That's fair enough. I guess I should give people a chance first before dismissing them as stupid. I mean, people are stupid, but that doesn't mean they can't accomplish great things, it at least gain knowledge.

Do you think most people are stupid?

Coddling is another issue, and causes sensitivities on its own. Take away the worst of the cat calling, and people will get more sensitive to the most mild. It tends to be a slippery slope.

I'm not sure if I understand. Are you saying that we coddle street harassed women, but we should teach them how to deal with it, rather than telling men, or just people to not do it?

I'm planning on writing a full response to that video I linked.

Anyways, are you saying that if we get rid of the worst of the worst of cat calling, people will still whine about it?

What are your opinions on street harassment? Anyone else have an opinion on it?

[brimstoneSalad]

Do you think most people are stupid?

Stupid is relative. Most people have very low IQs. Whether they'll put in the effort depends. Stupidity can be caused by laziness too, and industriousness can partially compensate for a low innate IQ.

I'm not sure if I understand. Are you saying that we coddle street harassed women, but we should teach them how to deal with it, rather than telling men, or just people to not do it?

When it's just verbal, yes.

Anyways, are you saying that if we get rid of the worst of the worst of cat calling, people will still whine about it?

Yes, they'll whine about the next worst thing, then the next.

What are your opinions on street harassment? Anyone else have an opinion on it?

It's rude, but we can't outlaw rudeness.

[Red]

Stupid is relative. Most people have very low IQs. Whether they'll put in the effort depends. Stupidity can be caused by laziness too, and industriousness can partially compensate for a low innate IQ.

Are you saying a 100 IQ isn't high? I guess it's only high enough so you can eat, breathe, shit, sleep, etc.

When it's just verbal, yes.

We should be worrying about physical assault more than things that are trivial such as street harassment you're saying? I live near Manhattan, which I go to from time to time, and I see a lot of catcalls, and I have never once seen physical assault. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it just doesn't seem as common.

Yes, they'll whine about the next worst thing, then the next.

You just can't satisfy everyone.

It's rude, but we can't outlaw rudeness.

I agree, it's a douchy thing to do. But, as Voltaire may or may not have said,
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I feel that if we don't let catcalling bother women, it likely would be phased out over time. Telling people not to do it doesn't seem to be very effective.

[brimstoneSalad]

Are you saying a 100 IQ isn't high? I guess it's only high enough so you can eat, breathe, shit, sleep, etc.

Pretty much.

We should be worrying about physical assault more than things that are trivial such as street harassment you're saying?

Yes, and yes it is uncommon.

I feel that if we don't let catcalling bother women, it likely would be phased out over time. Telling people not to do it doesn't seem to be very effective.

It won't be phased out, and I'll tell you why: because it works occasionally.
Guys who cat call will get more phone numbers and hookups than guys who stay silent. Even if it's only one in a thousand, they do it a dozen times a day, so they end up with several hookups a year. The quiet guy never fails, but he also never succeeds because he never tries. There are more effective means of picking up women, but cat calling is basically free and zero effort, so in terms of benefit for the effort put in, the economics make sense.

[Red]

It won't be phased out, and I'll tell you why: because it works occasionally.
Guys who cat call will get more phone numbers and hookups than guys who stay silent. Even if it's only one in a thousand, they do it a dozen times a day, so they end up with several hookups a year. The quiet guy never fails, but he also never succeeds because he never tries. There are more effective means of picking up women, but cat calling is basically free and zero effort, so in terms of benefit for the effort put in, the economics make sense.

I actually have considered it being part of human nature, but you pretty much explain it in extensive detail. I'm no biologist, but if I were to guess, it's to attempt to pick up a mate. So, this for some situations can be a good thing. I guess you can only change human nature so much (that's not to justify it).

Thanks for the input! I don't like to bother you with stupid questions, but thanks for answering them (like you always do).