Why Hillary Clinton Lost

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EquALLity
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Re: Why Hillary Clinton Lost

Post by EquALLity »

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:I'll just leave this here:
I blame Clinton too; she made a lot of mistakes in her campaign. But then I'm not a Democrat.

Any one of those things, if different, could have resulted in a different outcome (I think sexism was among the least of the issues though, so maybe not that one).
I think Bernie was the least.

As for sexism, I don't think it swung the election, but there are some people (fundamentalist Christians mostly) who don't believe in female leaders.

I think the major issue, like I said above, is that Hillary represented the establishment.
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Why Hillary Clinton Lost

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EquALLity wrote: As for sexism, I don't think it swung the election, but there are some people (fundamentalist Christians mostly) who don't believe in female leaders.
Absolutely true, but they wouldn't have voted for her anyway because they are pro-life. So unless they abandoned fundamentalism entirely (and not just the sexism part of it) she didn't have a shot with them.
EquALLity wrote: I think the major issue, like I said above, is that Hillary represented the establishment.
Her platform didn't appeal to enough people get get a safe margin over Trump to protect against these other issues. There are a number of ways she could have fixed it. Being anti-establishment may have, but would have also alienated her base.

She probably should have adopted more of Sanders' good policies earlier on, but if she didn't address unemployment and the loss of manufacturing jobs and energy sector jobs, I don't think that would have helped much.
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Re: Why Hillary Clinton Lost

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brimstoneSalad wrote:
EquALLity wrote: As for sexism, I don't think it swung the election, but there are some people (fundamentalist Christians mostly) who don't believe in female leaders.
Absolutely true, but they wouldn't have voted for her anyway because they are pro-life. So unless they abandoned fundamentalism entirely (and not just the sexism part of it) she didn't have a shot with them.
EquALLity wrote: I think the major issue, like I said above, is that Hillary represented the establishment.
Her platform didn't appeal to enough people get get a safe margin over Trump to protect against these other issues. There are a number of ways she could have fixed it. Being anti-establishment may have, but would have also alienated her base.

She probably should have adopted more of Sanders' good policies earlier on, but if she didn't address unemployment and the loss of manufacturing jobs and energy sector jobs, I don't think that would have helped much.
That's true, but there are also people who aren't very religious but who are generally 'old fashioned' and don't think that women should be leaders.

Her base was primarily people begrudgingly voting for her out of fear for Trump. Most people didn't like her.

The base of America in general is anti-establishment, which is why Bernie Sanders, an unknown Senator from Vermont, almost beat her in the primaries and was the only candidate who had positive favorability ratings.

I know this is anecdotal, but I spoke with a number of people while phone-banking, and know people personally, who voted for Hillary in the primaries (or would have if I didn't bother them ;) ) because they thought she had a better chance of winning EVEN THOUGH they preferred Bernie. The energy was with him. There's no base of anti-establishment voters.

Yeah, she supported very bad trade deals for American workers, and I agree that it certainly hurt her. Bernie was against them and won lots of the Rust Belt (remember the unprecedented and completely unexpected win in Michigan?).

Perhaps if they actually listened to Bernie's campaign when they were trying to help in the Rust Belt, things may have turned out differently. But they did exactly the opposite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XIiz9afv-A
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Why Hillary Clinton Lost

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EquALLity wrote: That's true, but there are also people who aren't very religious but who are generally 'old fashioned' and don't think that women should be leaders.
That sounds very speculative. What % of the population do you think that group represents, and is it larger than those more extreme feminists who are sexist in the opposite direction and believe women make inherently better leaders?
EquALLity wrote: Her base was primarily people begrudgingly voting for her out of fear for Trump. Most people didn't like her.
Right, it turns out that slightly greater dislike of the opponent isn't a good motivator for voter turnout.
EquALLity wrote: The energy was with him.
I think that's true at least. I'm glad I didn't have to support Trump in this election, which Sanders would have forced me to with his anti-nuclear position.
EquALLity wrote: Perhaps if they actually listened to Bernie's campaign when they were trying to help in the Rust Belt, things may have turned out differently. But they did exactly the opposite.
Quite likely. Her strategy there was terrible.
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Re: Why Hillary Clinton Lost

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

EquALLity wrote:I know you're a troll, but I like your point.^ :D :lol:

Of course, some of the other things likely played a roll, especially Russia in particular (according to the non-liberal FBI and CIA). But this election shouldn't have been so close that it could've been impacted by most of those things enough to let Trump win. The reason it was that close is, because like I showed with the polling statistics, people want change, and Trump was the only candidate who advocated for it.
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Re: Why Hillary Clinton Lost

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https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/44131

Obama betrayer (Wh will affirm). Hapless legislator (Senators/members will affirm). False promiser (policy elites will affirm). Can't win (black people will affirm).

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2016, at 10:48 PM, John Podesta <john.podesta@gmail.com<mailto:john.podesta@gmail.com>> wrote:

I agree with that in principle. Where would you stick the knife in?

On Sunday, February 21, 2016, Joel Johnson <Joel@gpg.com<mailto:Joel@gpg.com>> wrote:
Bernie needs to be ground to a pulp. We can't start believing our own primary bullshit. This is no time to run the general. Crush him as hard as you can. Other than that, hope all is well and congrats on Nevada!

Sent from my iPhone
"We can't start believing our own primary bullshit" perfectly illustrates the mindset of the Clinton campaign and why they lost. It wasn't really about policy; they didn't believe what they were saying.

"Can't win" is looking pretty ironic at the moment.
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
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