Transgender Children

[PsYcHo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9VihbrehGc

So I tend to mostly agree with Blaire on this issue. I don't think children have the capacity to make a choice of such life-long consequence, seeing as how both the body and the mind undergo such drastic changes at puberty. To be clear I have no problem with the children living as their preferred sex, but puberty blockers and hormones seem a bit extreme.

Thoughts?

[EquALLity]

So 'children' (teenagers) shouldn't use things to change their sex when they want to, because they aren't mature enough to decide their own sex? Is that it?

So why is it that they can make the choice (well it's not really a choice given that you want to force them) to stay of the sex they were assigned?
If they can't make the decision to choose their sex, then it's inconsistent to say they are capable of deciding to be the sex they were born with. Maybe they'll grow up and regret they didn't take puberty blockers and hormones!

I don't know how much you know about this stuff, but if you don't use those things, then you're pretty much bound to look like the sex you don't identify with for the rest of your life.
Do you really want people to have to look like the sex they aren't for the rest of their lives because they weren't allowed to take hormones as teenagers?

[Red]

Well you don't really 'choose' your sex. You're the gender you are born with, there isn't any changing that.

[EquALLity]

Ok, I just watched the video.

1) "Children can't decide to sterilize themselves."
Ok, I didn't know that becoming transgender makes you sterile. But what specifically makes you sterile? Taking the hormones, or surgery? Those things are different.
But even if it does make you sterile, I think teenagers are capable of deciding about that stuff, and I'm a teenager.
It's not like you can't have kids. It's actually a good thing if people become sterile, because there are so many children in orphanages waiting to be adopted.

2) "We don't let kids get tattoos and piercings which are permanent (actually pretty much every teenage girl has her ears pierced, but whatever, maybe she means other piercings), so we shouldn't let them make permanent sex transitions."
A tattoo or piercing isn't core to your identity. Your gender identity is. Being forced to be the gender that you aren't is refusing someone's identity, and that's WAY different from refusing someone a tattoo- especially in a world that is already not very accepting of the trans community.

3) "Going off hormones has health risks."
What about the health risks of forcing someone to be someone they are not? That never gets mentioned.

[brimstoneSalad]

I'm with the current consensus: no sex changes (of course the children can choose to live as the opposite sex if they wish, and they should to know if that's what they want), but delayed puberty is OK to wait until "they're old enough to decide", which may vary by place. Delaying puberty for around four years from the age of 12 seems safe.

Failing to delay puberty has serious consequences, like chemically irreversible secondary sex characteristics that can only be reversed by expensive and invasive surgery. A male who goes through puberty may have to spend $10k or more just to undo the changes to bone structure in the face which is otherwise permanently masculinizing (and makes it almost impossible to pass as a female). If you've ever seen a trans woman who didn't tell you she was trans (or you weren't told by others), that's probably why you knew. This is a likely reason for the frequency of suicide and depression among trans people.

Any delay for transition is better than no delay, because the longer you wait, the more of them change their minds and save medical interventions and a lifetime of hormone therapy (as well as retain their ability to have biological children). Most children who identify with the opposite gender in youth change their minds and live happy lives as their biological genders; many as gay or lesbian (which at least in the West is pretty well accepted today), some as straight effeminate men and tomboys.
Sometimes it's hard for kids to understand that even if you're biologically male that doesn't mean you can't like dolls and fashion, or other boys, and just because you're biologically female doesn't mean you can't like trucks and tanks, or other girls. There is a disparity between boys wanting to be girls and girls wanting to be boys; the former is much more common, probably because girls having boy interests is more socially acceptable as tom boys than the other way around.

[PsYcHo]

So 'children' (teenagers) shouldn't use things to change their sex when they want to, because they aren't mature enough to decide their own sex? Is that it?

The specific point of this thread is relevant to pre-pubescent children. If I didn't make it clear, those who have gone through puberty are not the point of this debate. (If you have hair on your "danger zone", IMO you have the right to choose what you want.) I thought I made that clear, but just a clarification in case it wasn't.

So why is it that they can make the choice (well it's not really a choice given that you want to force them) to stay of the sex they were assigned?

The sex they were assigned?!! No, this is the sex they were born with. And where did I say I wanted them to be forced to embrace the sex they were born with? I thought I made it perfectly clear I have no problem with them living as the sex they identify with. My only issue is with them taking hormones that will permanently change their biology. (TMI/Full disclosure; I wore girl's undergarments as a small child, and given today's standards I would have likely been a candidate for a transgender girl. But... Once puberty hit, I developed more, and became (eventually) comfortable with my masculine side.) Do you really think a pre-pubescent child has the capacity to understand what changes their mind and body will go through once they reach adolescence?

If they can't make the decision to choose their sex, then it's inconsistent to say they are capable of deciding to be the sex they were born with. Maybe they'll grow up and regret they didn't take puberty blockers and hormones!

The difference is, if they take the puberty blockers and hormones, They can't reverse that childhood decision.

I don't know how much you know about this stuff, but if you don't use those things, then you're pretty much bound tolook like the sex you don't identify with for the rest of your life.
Do you really want people to have to look like the sex they aren't for the rest of their lives because they weren't allowed to take hormones as teenagers?

.....You are half my age at least, and a progressive person by at least twice what I could claim to be, so I will ask you to look at what you have written, and really pay attention to what I have "bolded"...

I was going to write more here, but I hope that my message is clear. Look Like???!!!

[PsYcHo]

What about the health risks of forcing someone to be someone they are not? That never gets mentioned.

......

Girl, I have a rainbow pony avatar and I've only watched one episode of MLP just to see what the big deal was. It was boring,IMO I respect your opinion, but what bothers me is when non-LGBT people try to defend the media's definition of the LGBT community,

We don't all agree on everything, just like any other community!! I'm not trying to force anyone to be someone they are not!!!! One of my youngest friends from grade school is a transgender woman!! And She is beautiful! But she transitioned after Puberty.

And just in case anyone else on the forum is Trans or LGBT or just sympathetic, I/we appreciate the support. but dammit get up here and corroborate we don't all agree!!

[brimstoneSalad]

...

We need nerdy science girl up in this thread.

[Cloppy]

So why is it that they can make the choice (well it's not really a choice given that you want to force them) to stay of the sex they were assigned?
If they can't make the decision to choose their sex, then it's inconsistent to say they are capable of deciding to be the sex they were born with. Maybe they'll grow up and regret they didn't take puberty blockers and hormones!

I wish I had started hormones before puberty, there are a few small difference between someone who started before or after puberty. As for me I regret it a little bit of not starting earlier but I'm still comfortable enough in my body. I'm not sure if my voice would have changed if I took hormones before puberty, if it would not have started to sound more deep then I would have been very happy as this is one thing I hate about myself a lot, it's my voice and it's hard to practice making a female voice and keep it constantly.

1) "Children can't decide to sterilize themselves."
Ok, I didn't know that becoming transgender makes you sterile. But what specifically makes you sterile? Taking the hormones, or surgery? Those things are different.
But even if it does make you sterile, I think teenagers are capable of deciding about that stuff, and I'm a teenager.
It's not like you can't have kids. It's actually a good thing if people become sterile, because there are so many children in orphanages waiting to be adopted.

Hormones replacement therapy does make your sterile if you're male to female (I'm not sure about female to male) it's basically similar to chemical castration. You can't really produce sperm anymore after a while or if you can it's a very tiny amount.