Vegetarian trying to go vegan!

[mikeminima256]

Hey, I'm a six-month vegetarian who is looking to go vegan. I saw Earthlings about two months before that, and I figured I should try to go vegan as something good to come out with after this pandemic crap (and since meat-eating WAS the cause of the pandemic, well...).

It was easy transitioning to vegetarian, but I'm having some difficulties going vegan. Almond milk tastes alright, but I still prefer cow's milk, and the soy milk I've tried has a really weird taste to it. I also eat a lot of foods that have eggs in them like brioches and mayo, but I am interested in trying the vegan versions of this stuff. Also, I'm ADDICTED to cheese, and I'm not sure if I can shake that habit. I can try though but I might need some help.

Also, since I'm gonna get into this debate, I would like to know more pro-vegan arguments to use in discussions.

About myself, I'm 23 from the USA, and I sometimes like to talk politics. Yeah I'm not very interesting.

[Red]

Welcome to the forum mike! Yeah, Earthlings has had quite an impact.

and I figured I should try to go vegan as something good to come out with after this pandemic crap

Good to see that mentality. I've seen some people who say trying to get people to go vegan during the pandemic is willful and inconsiderate (yeah because the human spirit is so weak, apparently).

(and since meat-eating WAS the cause of the pandemic, well...).

People will probably just assume it comes from bushmeat anyways, as true as this is. Maybe another pandemic that causes necrosis and total organ failure will understand, but who knows.

It was easy transitioning to vegetarian, but I'm having some difficulties going vegan.

Don't worry, that isn't too uncommon. Just be sure that you aren't eating *more* dairy and eggs to compensate for the loss of meat.

Almond milk tastes alright, but I still prefer cow's milk, and the soy milk I've tried has a really weird taste to it.

I love soy and almond milk, but admittedly there is a bit of an acquired taste to them. What brand of milks have you tried?

I also eat a lot of foods that have eggs in them like brioches and mayo, but I am interested in trying the vegan versions of this stuff. Also, I'm ADDICTED to cheese, and I'm not sure if I can shake that habit. I can try though but I might need some help.

FollowYourHeart and Daiya have tons of alternatives to those, try them. Some people don't like it, but it's worth trying.

, since I'm gonna get into this debate, I would like to know more pro-vegan arguments to use in discussions.

Just pursue the forum you'll find tons of old threads of debates and arguments to use. Just don't get into Youtube comment debates though unless you want to sacrifice your faith in humanity.

About myself, I'm 23 from the USA, and I sometimes like to talk politics. Yeah I'm not very interesting.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your political views? We sometimes have political debates.

[mikeminima256]

Welcome to the forum mike! Yeah, Earthlings has had quite an impact.

Indeed.

and I figured I should try to go vegan as something good to come out with after this pandemic crap

Good to see that mentality. I've seen some people who say trying to get people to go vegan during the pandemic is willful and inconsiderate (yeah because the human spirit is so weak, apparently).

Well I'm not quite there yet!

(and since meat-eating WAS the cause of the pandemic, well...).

People will probably just assume it comes from bushmeat anyways, as true as this is. Maybe another pandemic that causes necrosis and total organ failure will understand, but who knows.

Are the worst diseases from bushmeat though? Of course livestock can cause disease but is wild meat more deadly in that regard?

It was easy transitioning to vegetarian, but I'm having some difficulties going vegan.

Don't worry, that isn't too uncommon. Just be sure that you aren't eating *more* dairy and eggs to compensate for the loss of meat.

I have to admit I've been eating a little more, but not for every meal.

Almond milk tastes alright, but I still prefer cow's milk, and the soy milk I've tried has a really weird taste to it.

I love soy and almond milk, but admittedly there is a bit of an acquired taste to them. What brand of milks have you tried?

I have tried the unsweetened versions of them, the first one was the Almond Breeze brand and the other was Westsoy.

I also eat a lot of foods that have eggs in them like brioches and mayo, but I am interested in trying the vegan versions of this stuff. Also, I'm ADDICTED to cheese, and I'm not sure if I can shake that habit. I can try though but I might need some help.

FollowYourHeart and Daiya have tons of alternatives to those, try them. Some people don't like it, but it's worth trying.

There seems to be Daiya in my local store, I'll keep an eye out.

, since I'm gonna get into this debate, I would like to know more pro-vegan arguments to use in discussions.

Just pursue the forum you'll find tons of old threads of debates and arguments to use. Just don't get into Youtube comment debates though unless you want to sacrifice your faith in humanity.

Haha, I know, but sometimes it's tempting.

About myself, I'm 23 from the USA, and I sometimes like to talk politics. Yeah I'm not very interesting.

If you don't mind me asking, what are your political views? We sometimes have political debates.

[/quote]
I consider myself center-left or whatever. Mainstream Democratic views, I guess.

[Jebus]

Welcome mikeminima256! Good on you for considering veganism. It will likely be the most important step you take in your entire life time.

I'm having some difficulties going vegan. Almond milk tastes alright, but I still prefer cow's milk, and the soy milk I've tried has a really weird taste to it.

It's a lot about questioning old habits and traditions. Why do people put cereal in cow milk in the morning? It's not particularly healthful and very bad for the cows and the environment. After turning vegan, I did the plant-based "milk" thing for a while but then realized there are much better things I can put in my body.

Also, I'm ADDICTED to cheese, and I'm not sure if I can shake that habit.

That was my concern too when transitioning from vegetarian to vegan. It bothered me for a couple of weeks but that was all. It helps thinking about what cheese really is when you have cravings. Anyway, these days there are some really good vegan cheeses if you still feel like you need cheese it in your diet.

I sometimes like to talk politics. Yeah I'm not very interesting.

Neither is politics these days.

[mikeminima256]

Welcome mikeminima256! Good on you for considering veganism. It will likely be the most important step you take in your entire life time.

I think so too.

I'm having some difficulties going vegan. Almond milk tastes alright, but I still prefer cow's milk, and the soy milk I've tried has a really weird taste to it.

It's a lot about questioning old habits and traditions. Why do people put cereal in cow milk in the morning? It's not particularly healthful and very bad for the cows and the environment. After turning vegan, I did the plant-based "milk" thing for a while but then realized there are much better things I can put in my body.

I mostly just like drinking milk for breakfast or lunch, I don't really eat cereal. I heard some plant milks are healthy, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary.

Also, I'm ADDICTED to cheese, and I'm not sure if I can shake that habit.

That was my concern too when transitioning from vegetarian to vegan. It bothered me for a couple of weeks but that was all. It helps thinking about what cheese really is when you have cravings. Anyway, these days there are some really good vegan cheeses if you still feel like you need cheese it in your diet.

I hope so, but I heard cheese has some addictive properties to them. I think I'll start by just not buying real cheeses.

I sometimes like to talk politics. Yeah I'm not very interesting.

Neither is politics these days.

True. Some discussions can be interesting though.

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome Mike!
Cheese can be tricky, but you can probably rest assured that we're only a couple years out from having vegan cheese on the market made with cellular agriculture. There's already vegan ice cream made with milk proteins from yeast.
So, giving up cheese now shouldn't look like a forever thing given we're so close. You'll be one of the last generations of vegans to have to give up cheese, which might be something of a badge of honor to talk about in a couple decades.

Kind of like how the impossible burger has made it for many vegans that they don't feel like they're giving up burgers. Of course making things easier it good and important, but then you don't have those "In my day we had to walk 20 miles in the snow to school barefoot uphill" stories.

I hope we'll be able to help with the arguments. The main is the ethical one, since it's pretty intuitive that unnecessary suffering isn't a good thing, and then you just have to cite nutritional consensus to show it's not necessary -- and of course yourself managing to be vegan (once you are).

Other argument are mostly about tracking down and debunking pseudoscience like claims that plants feel pain.

[mikeminima256]

Welcome Mike!
Cheese can be tricky, but you can probably rest assured that we're only a couple years out from having vegan cheese on the market made with cellular agriculture.

That sounds interesting, when do you think we'll have it by? Five or so years?

There's already vegan ice cream made with milk proteins from yeast.

I actually have had Vegan ice creams like Almond Dream and So Delicious, I think they do just fine. Daiya also has some ice creams too.

So, giving up cheese now shouldn't look like a forever thing given we're so close. You'll be one of the last generations of vegans to have to give up cheese, which might be something of a badge of honor to talk about in a couple decades.

I'm gonna try the Daiya cheese Red was talking about, he seems to like it. I'm gonna go shopping later this week, since my local grocery store has it.

Kind of like how the impossible burger has made it for many vegans that they don't feel like they're giving up burgers. Of course making things easier it good and important, but then you don't have those "In my day we had to walk 20 miles in the snow to school barefoot uphill" stories.

Well how long have we had mock meats? Or good mock meats at least? I'm mostly relying on them right now BTW.

I hope we'll be able to help with the arguments. The main is the ethical one, since it's pretty intuitive that unnecessary suffering isn't a good thing, and then you just have to cite nutritional consensus to show it's not necessary -- and of course yourself managing to be vegan (once you are).

I think we just have to show that people need to do the least amount of harm that they can.

Other argument are mostly about tracking down and debunking pseudoscience like claims that plants feel pain.

Well I think I wanna go after something a little more challenging than that.

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome Mike!
Cheese can be tricky, but you can probably rest assured that we're only a couple years out from having vegan cheese on the market made with cellular agriculture.

That sounds interesting, when do you think we'll have it by? Five or so years?

My guess is probably two years, but possibly next year. That said, it may be 3-4 years before it's more widely available. It may never be available in some countries (as in Europe) with more anti-scientific and draconian policies banning sale of products like these.

I'm gonna try the Daiya cheese Red was talking about, he seems to like it. I'm gonna go shopping later this week, since my local grocery store has it.

The trick is to put it on something, like a pizza, and use as little as possible. The flavor is OK but the texture is a problem if you have a lot of it.

Well how long have we had mock meats? Or good mock meats at least? I'm mostly relying on them right now BTW.

Depends on what you think good is, but it's only been a couple years since the new generation of mock meats became available.

[Forests]

Mike the worst thing for health in my opinion is dairy and it is also the most unethical food on the planet.

I recommend you watch Joey Carbstrong's documentary on dairy on YouTube. He exposes all the abuse and horrific evils that go on in dairy farms. The documentary is free on YouTube it only came out about a month ago. It is called Milk: Make Your Own Mind Up - (2021) Full Documentary

In the last 5 years most of the medical community now accept that drinking cow's milk increases the risk of prostate cancer. It's about time but sadly they do not accept it causes any other type of cancer. This is very ignorant because there is a wealth of data to suggest otherwise.

There was a good study last year "Dairy, soy, and risk of breast cancer: those confounded milks" published in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

They found that drinking as little as one cup per day may increase rate of breast cancer up to 50%.

I have extensively studied the negative health effects of dairy consumption. It is not natural to be consuming cows milk.

Dairy is not aloud on the paleo or vegan diet but lacto-vegetarians love dairy.

Some vegetarians are now recommending goats milk because it is easier to digest than cow's milk. I do not support that either. We do not need to be consuming other species milk. Look in nature no other species on the planet does it.

If you want calcium you can get it from leafy greens such as collard greens and kale. You can eat these raw in salads or lightly steam them for dinners. I do this everyday.

A common complaint against paleo or vegan diets is that they are deficient in calcium. It is a myth.

So in a nutshell ditch the dairy. Dairy is worse than consuming meat. There is a good book by a vegan physician Neal Barnard called "The Cheese Trap". There is more saturated fat and sodium in cheese than meat, he talks about that. There's more sodium in cheese than potato chips. It is not a health food.

[Red]

@Forests I think @mikeminima256 knows dairy is bad, that's why he's trying to kick it.