Vaccine hesitancy

[teo123]

I am familiar with many anti-vaxxer arguments, and this with Marek's Disease is probably the only argument they have making some degree of sense. Anti-vaxxers make way less sense to me than Flat-Earthers. I don't know about you, but I'd rank anti-vaxxers lower than Flat-Earthers in terms of intellectual merit.

[Kwashiorkor]

Vaccination should have been obligatory.

[teo123]

What caused the 55% excess mortality in July 2022 in Iceland that the Croatian anti-vaxxer Mislav Kolakušić is talking about? COVID-19 really does not seem like a plausible explanation, as it was summer and a highly vaccinated country. I am no anti-vaxxer, I got vaccinated against COVID-19 twice (once with J&J, as soon as Croatia allowed under-30s to get vaccinated, and once with Pfizer), but that really seems intriguing.

[Red]

What caused the 55% excess mortality in July 2022 in Iceland that the Croatian anti-vaxxer Mislav Kolakušić is talking about? COVID-19 really does not seem like a plausible explanation, as it was summer and a highly vaccinated country. I am no anti-vaxxer, I got vaccinated against COVID-19 twice (once with J&J, as soon as Croatia allowed under-30s to get vaccinated, and once with Pfizer), but that really seems intriguing.

Are you just not capable of using Google
https://healthfeedback.org/what-can-exp ... e-in-2022/

[teo123]

What caused the 55% excess mortality in July 2022 in Iceland that the Croatian anti-vaxxer Mislav Kolakušić is talking about? COVID-19 really does not seem like a plausible explanation, as it was summer and a highly vaccinated country. I am no anti-vaxxer, I got vaccinated against COVID-19 twice (once with J&J, as soon as Croatia allowed under-30s to get vaccinated, and once with Pfizer), but that really seems intriguing.

Are you just not capable of using Google
https://healthfeedback.org/what-can-exp ... e-in-2022/

I feel like that article is contradicting itself. First it says that the reason for the excess mortality is COVID-19, and later it says there is no correlation between vaccination rate and excess mortality. If the reason were indeed COVID-19, then there would be a correlation between vaccination rate and excess mortality, there would be a negative correlation.

[Red]

I feel like that article is contradicting itself. First it says that the reason for the excess mortality is COVID-19, and later it says there is no correlation between vaccination rate and excess mortality. If the reason were indeed COVID-19, then there would be a correlation between vaccination rate and excess mortality, there would be a negative correlation.

The overwhelming majority of COVID related deaths are among people who haven't been vaccinated, and/or have not gotten their booster shots. If you look at the people WHO HAVEN'T DIED from COVID, then you'll see the negative correlation you're looking for.

Thus Figure 6 shows that having a greater proportion of vaccinated people in the population isn’t associated with an increase in excess mortality. This contradicts the claim that COVID-19 vaccines are responsible for the excess deaths.

There appears to be a new, slightly more contagious variant going around which is increasing transmission rate and thus deaths.

And it wasn't just from COVID, the heat waves also caused some excess deaths, as well as the the recovering medical infrastructure (some hospitals are still having trouble).

[teo123]

The overwhelming majority of COVID related deaths are among people who haven't been vaccinated, and/or have not gotten their booster shots.

Of course, but if the excess mortality was caused primarily by COVID, then there would be a negative correlation between excess mortality and vaccination rate. There is no correlation.

If you look at the people WHO HAVEN'T DIED from COVID, then you'll see the negative correlation you're looking for.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Can you clarify? We are talking about excess deaths here, some of them likely are due to COVID, but the data does not seem to support the idea that most of them are.

[Red]

Of course, but if the excess mortality was caused primarily by COVID, then there would be a negative correlation between excess mortality and vaccination rate. There is no correlation.

We know there is a strong positive correlation between people NOT vaccinated and COVID related deaths. We also know "there’s no correlation between vaccination coverage and the amount of excess mortality, nor is excess mortality positively correlated with the deployment of public COVID-19 vaccination campaigns."

The excess deaths from people who were vaccinated are largely due to the heat waves and the poor adjustment of the hospitals (which you'd know if you actually read the article). And even with that, there were still fewer excess deaths in 2022 than in the previous years. It's important to note that only about 35% of excess deaths are related to COVID, and there is no evidence to suggest that the vaccines are responsible for the other 65%.

You're asking for evidence that isn't even relevant; What is relevant is that, given what we've observed, those unvaccinated are more likely to be victims of the excess deaths being observed related to COVID, while vaccinated individuals are not. We don't entirely know what's causing ALL of the excess deaths, but COVID is certainly a huge part of it.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Can you clarify? We are talking about excess deaths here, some of them likely are due to COVID, but the data does not seem to support the idea that most of them are.

Right, about 35% are. Do you have any evidence to suggest that it's caused by the vaccines?

[teo123]

And even with that, there were still fewer excess deaths in 2022 than in the previous years.

Really? In previous years, Iceland had more than 55% excess mortality in July?

[Red]

And even with that, there were still fewer excess deaths in 2022 than in the previous years.

Really? In previous years, Iceland had more than 55% excess mortality in July?

I'm talking globally here Teo, not just one country with a population of less than four hundred thousand.

Even before July, a lot of the excess deaths were due to COVID (though in a country with such a small population, that still only comes out to less than a few hundred excess deaths).
https://island.is/en/news/deaths-in-ice ... e-epidemic