Nilesh wrote:
ok, so like i drink milk very often, and if i drink like 1/2 liters everyday i don't think it will pose any considerable risk me, will it ?
It will. That is a large amount of milk. Milk increases your risk of a number of cancers, as well as heart disease. The more milk you drink, the more likely you will develop disease and die younger.
Milk is OK for babies, and it was very important 100 years ago, but today it's not important anymore because we have better options.
Nilesh wrote:
i don't think your lifestyle is where you need to do good amount of physical labor everyday(and i am not talking about one hour in gym), because you need fat in that situation
If you have a very active lifestyle and need more calories from fat, I suggest whole fatty plant foods, such as seeds, or fatty beans like soy.
Canola (low erucic acid rapeseed) oil is the healthiest
cheap and readily available fat.
Make sure you also eat as many veggies as you can for nutrients.
Could you tell me more about your diet now?
Some people think "I should eat the cheapest food to save money", but this is a false economy. The cheapest food, if unhealthy, will cause disease later. It will save you money today, and cost you even more tomorrow.
Nilesh wrote:it is for baby cows, yes it is, and that is why it drinks the milk 1st then we are allowed to take
This is not the situation for commercial farms.
Have you been to the farm where all of the milk you drink is produced? Have you seen this, and proven it with your own eyes?
Most companies will lie about their ethics in situations like these to sell more product.
Nilesh wrote:
I don't think there is any species presently present in this world, which is more than what earth/environment can handle, I think earth has enough to fulfill all our needs but not enough to fulfill even one person's greed, and i think here many people confuses.
Milk is not a need, but a greed. If people lived on large farms, spread out in land, then maybe they could maintain sustainable dairy farming. This isn't the reality today.
There is too large a population to feed on milk. This is based on thermodynamics. When people in cities drink milk, the milk must be produced in factories to supply them. There's not enough room.
Vegetables to people is efficient.
Vegetable to Cows to people will waste energy and resources, and produce more pollution because the change from vegetables to milk in the cow's body isn't so efficient.
The cow becomes a "middle man" which causes more pollution and wastes food.
Nilesh wrote:
for example there anything which goes into industrial/commercial production harms the environment,
Because of the scale of the population (so many people), it isn't possible to make enough milk for everybody on small farms.
Maybe you have the privilege to drink milk from your family farm, but most people can't do this.
Nilesh wrote:
so we should stop growing vegetables, should not use electricity and should not use any electronic items also
Vegetables are a need. They make us healthier, and they sustain us. The same with electricity, which makes us healthier, improves our economy, etc. Milk is a harmful greed. It makes us less healthy, it is harmful to us, AND harmful to the world. Milk is more harmful to the world than growing vegetables.
In every way we should prefer vegetables to milk. Health, environment, etc. Vegetables are better for the world, even grown on a commercial farm, compared to milk, because the cow has to eat even more vegetables to produce the milk.
There is justification for farming vegetables because they are GOOD for us, and NECESSARY. There is no justification for farming for dairy, because it's bad for us, harmful to the world, and unnecessary.
Nilesh wrote:
so in my view the commercial scale is the problem, because otherwise, it'll be like saying if you kill animals for eating then it is wrong, but if you kill them so that you can do mining and make aluminum then that'll be acceptable
The bigger issue is that meat is bad for people and more harmful. So, they harm themselves and the world and animals. Vegetables are good for people, so we help our health, and we harm fewer animals, and less harm to the environment compared to meat and milk (there is still a little harm, but it is the least harm).
Nilesh wrote:
yes it happens, it's a shame, but you know which ideologies promote it, the secular and atheist and liberal/progressive ideologies, but can we blame all atheist/secular/progressives for this, for that matter, will you ask people not to be/call themselves atheist/liberal anymore.
This may be the situation in India, because of a long tradition of treating cows as sacred for Hindus. I would expect harm to animals to also be strongly promoted by Muslims in India too, though. In the West, harm to animals is mainly promoted by Christians. These people have the idea that "animals don't have souls, so they are the same as machines".
To the contrary, secular science teaches us that we are all related, so animals are our cousins, and have feelings similar to us.
Nilesh wrote:
i accept all the wrongs that are happening India, and as a society none of us(Indians in this context) can disown the responsibility(whatever proportion we have )
the the solutions that we need also should be genuine, and not something that just resonates with our own bias
Yes, which is why the best solution is to stop drinking milk, instead of trying to drink special milk which we could only get based on our privilege of having contact with a personal or family farm.
If we continue to drink milk, we can't serve a good example for others, because others can not follow the example. There are not enough ethical farms in the world for people to drink milk. It's not enough to go around. So cruel farms must supply the milk, and if we drink milk, we will fail to condemn this adequately.
Nilesh wrote:
i know many bad practices regarding animals are there in every society and we should try to eliminate those and not try to just shun out animals from our lives
i mean the emphasis should be on co-existing
I don't suggest we should shun all non-human animals from our lives. But we certainly shouldn't use them for food. This is wasteful and harmful to our health.
The only way the factories can supply enough milk today is to forcefully breed cows, take away their babies, etc. and grow even more vegetables to feed them all.
There's not enough room for cows to live natural lives anymore, because there are too many people drinking too much milk.
Either we need to reduce the human population (if you want to kill 90% of the people, you can do this -- but I couldn't agree to that), or we have to start to live more environmental lives. People should eat plants directly, and that will reduce the burden on the world.
Most environmental: Plants -> Humans
Environmentally damaging: Plants -> Cows -> Humans
Most environmentally damaging: Plants -> Cows -> Cats (or other meat eating animal) -> Humans
The more steps you need, the more environmental damage.
In my view, there could be some cows in the world, but we can't breed them like this and force them to make all of the food. It will not be sustainable. Cows should be free, such as in parks, so people can meet with them, and they can just save their milk for their babies.
There could be a million cows in the world, free and happy in parks where people could pet them, and that would be OK.
But there can't be 1.5 billion cows being fed all of the vegetables, instead of people being able to eat them, and then trying to feed the people on the cow products.
Nilesh wrote:
in the same manner animals(1st animals are not here for us to eat them), we should have a constructive relationship with them and not just be blindly against anything associated with animals(just to satisfy our own ego, because how many of us will stop electricity and electronics so that it wont cause kill any more animals in it's manufacturing directly or indirectly)
I agree, but as I said, the relationship with animal agriculture is destructive for everybody. It's bad for health, bad for the environment, and harms animals.
I think the situation of having a small pet dog for each family is more constructive. A dog can make people happier, and also be happy. And as long as we aren't feeding the dog to grow meat (which would be wasteful), and just have a basic vegetarian diet for the dog, it's more sustainable.
It's even better for assistance dogs, who help disabled people, or the police. There are situations where we have a good relationship with animals that benefits us.
But milk doesn't benefit us, it harms us, and the environment greatly.
Nilesh wrote:
when we had a cow, i knew it's name, it knew me, it was a sentient/conscious being with whom i shared my home, and it helped me towards developing compassion towards others
I agree, but we can't rely on animals for food, due to environmental reasons, and it's impossible to have enough room for all people to do this. I think everybody should have the chance to meet and know many animals, but they should stay in the park where ALL people can meet them, since it's not practical for most people to keep cows in their homes.
Nilesh wrote:
"not everybody can do it ", why exactly ?
There just isn't room. There aren't enough resources. If we keep trying to do this, WE WILL ALL DIE. The Earth is almost out of resources, and the practice of keeping 1.5 billion cows is destroying the environment. We have been destroying all of the forests to keep more cows-- is that good?
There could be millions of cows, but not billions. It's too many, we are destroying our planet by forcefully breeding cows and using them for food.
Nilesh wrote:
"so it will be seen as unfair if privileged people drink humane milk and tell others to quit drinking milk.", so if i grow organic food in my backyard and then tell someone else that mechanized farming uses so many chemicals and it has so much bad effect on you and environment, so am i being hypocritical here in telling him or growing organic myself, am i being unfair to this person ?
Right, because they have no choice; they can not grow organic food. Organic food requires more land than mechanized farming, and there isn't enough land in the world.
If everybody grew organic food, then we would all die, because there's not enough room to grow enough food for everybody using organic farming.
So, we shouldn't say "organic farming is the answer", because it's not possible to feed the world in this way.
Instead, we should act in a way that can inspire others and provide a good example.
If you are drinking more ethical milk, and criticize others, they can say "but I have no chance to drink this milk, only a few people in the world can get this milk, so I will drink cruelty based milk"
Instead, if you are vegan, then criticize others for drinking milk, they can say nothing against your privilege, because you are serving as a good example that anybody can follow.
Nilesh wrote:
but i know families(not some few, but more then the population of many European countries, but i don't know everyone personally) that have for generations not eaten any egg/meat, so how come they don't have any nerve damage, or anemia is not especially prevalent among them
so this statement/question i am not even understand completely
B-12 is mainly in feces. If there is fecal contamination in your drinking water, you may get enough B-12. Particularly in poor areas, it's common to drink contaminated water, and even have food contaminated by feces.
Aside from Feces, B-12 is mainly in liver, and a little in meat, but only small amounts in egg and milk.
It's important to take a B-12 supplement. Particularly if you live in a clean environment, and you drink clean water.
