A thought

[TheVeganAtheist]

I feel it in my heart, I guess the same way you feel Vegan is the right path for you. You just know it is right.

veganism isn't a path, and Im not vegan because I just feel its the right thing to do. I have very rational evidence based reasons to be vegan.

[remome]

Correct, what would you compare it with? How would really know what it was if you couldn't compare?

You don't need to compare it with anything.
So you're telling me that if you never ate anything, you wouldn't feel hungry because you'd never felt full?

Hunger is a basic living need, either you eat or you die.. But, if you have never eaten anything, of course you'd feel hungry. Since you have to eat, after you do, you feel sated.

Because I am allowed to do anything I wish. I am not limited by anything. If I wanted to go out and do evil, I can. Yes I'll face the consequences here in the physical realm, but that is it. I'm not even limited to the physical realm. (I mean astral).

The 'astral realm'? What?

Astral Projection, look it up.

I meant Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, and other masters.

It's not like the three are interchangeable. And in addition, even within these religions, people disagree about the right things according to their religion.

Actually, they all were saying the same thing, it is unfortunate the current bibles are complete fabrication based on years and years of mistranslated texts/stories.

I've experienced them, I remember parts of them.

I don't know about that. It's much more likely you are remembering dreams or something.

I know the difference between a dream and a memory.

No, you cannot stop the Free Will of the soul.

Yes you can. If you slit a cow's throat while it's tied up and can't escape, you are compromising its free will to not have that happen to it.

You have no idea what the purpose of that cow is. Same goes for plants, they respond to music, talking, sun, chemicals. They learn as well. We just don't know how yet.

I feel it in my heart, I guess the same way you feel Vegan is the right path for you. You just know it is right.

We aren't just vegans because we feel veganism is the 'right path'. Here, watch the video in my signature.

[remome]

I feel it in my heart, I guess the same way you feel Vegan is the right path for you. You just know it is right.

No, that's actually far from it.
Just because you 'feel' something is right, it doesn't mean it's right.
Many people 'feel' something is right, but do you seriously think all of them are right in what they feel, just because they feel it?
To determine if something's true, you need evidence, not feelings.
Your feelings are based on/conditioned by your personality, memories, desires and ideologies. Your feelings aren't 'generated' by objective truth.

Imagine if scientists would publicize discoveries that they think are right, based on their feelings - but haven't actually proved them.
Or imagine if doctors would prescribe medicines for their patients based on what they feel, without making a diagnosis.

Some people go vegan exclusively basing themselves on their feelings, but those are the ones that don't usually last long.
Most long-time vegans know they're doing the right thing, basing themselves on morality and facts, not feelings.
No rational people base what they're going to believe on feelings alone.

What are you basing morals on? What people have told you? What you think is right? Who really decides what is right or wrong?
There is no scientific evidence on morals. Some people feel killing is wrong, while others have no problems with it.
People are murdered every day. Some people feel guilty about killing, others feel nothing. Morals change… Around 400 years ago we burned witches, Rome used to have people fight to the death, today we still torture people, and we still execute people for killing. Morals are a feeling of right and wrong. You know killing is wrong because you feel it is wrong, society told you it is wrong. Really, a lot of people fear the consequences of killing. We base our entire morality on what we think and feel is right or wrong as well as the current consequences to our actions.

[miniboes]

There is no scientific evidence on morals.

Wrong. Ultimately morality is about the well-being and interests of sentient creatures. As we can scientifically measure well-being, there is an objective standard for morality.

More on objective morality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTKf5cCm-9g

Some people feel killing is wrong, while others have no problems with it.

Have you considered one or both of these groups could be wrong? Some people thought smoking is healthy, does that make it a matter of opinion?

You know killing is wrong because you feel it is wrong, society told you it is wrong.

No, I know killing is wrong because it a) goes against the interests of the one killed, b) it takes away all potential well-being for the victim and c) it brings great suffering to the victim's loved ones.

We base our entire morality on what we think and feel is right or wrong as well as the current consequences to our actions.

It is true that most people seem to rely on a gut feeling when it comes to morality, however that does not mean morality is ultimately subjective. That our way of evaluating moral questions may not be subjective does not mean there is not an objective way to do it.

I do not see how all this subjective morality stuff relates to the question on whether or not your god exists, but whatever. I might not have read the rest of the thread carefully enough.

[remome]

There is no scientific evidence on morals.

Wrong. Ultimately morality is about the well-being and interests of sentient creatures. As we can scientifically measure well-being, there is an objective standard for morality.

More on objective morality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTKf5cCm-9g

Again, it is still all based off of feeling what is right and wrong. As it stands, it is mainly a philosophical issue.

Some people feel killing is wrong, while others have no problems with it.

Have you considered one or both of these groups could be wrong? Some people thought smoking is healthy, does that make it a matter of opinion?

It is a matter of opinion to some. (Not smoking, that is unhealthy and has been proven).

You know killing is wrong because you feel it is wrong, society told you it is wrong.

No, I know killing is wrong because it a) goes against the interests of the one killed, b) it takes away all potential well-being for the victim and c) it brings great suffering to the victim's loved ones.

I agree it is wrong, but if you was raised in a different area where killing was a normal thing, most likely you wouldn't have a problem with it. If the victim had no family and wanted to die? Is it morally wrong to deny him his death?

We base our entire morality on what we think and feel is right or wrong as well as the current consequences to our actions.

It is true that most people seem to rely on a gut feeling when it comes to morality, however that does not mean morality is ultimately subjective. That our way of evaluating moral questions may not be subjective does not mean there is not an objective way to do it.

I do not see how all this subjective morality stuff relates to the question on whether or not your god exists, but whatever. I might not have read the rest of the thread carefully enough.

It was to simply point out how we can base issues on how we feel about something.

I do want it made clear, I am not nor will I ever try to convert anyone. I am just simply stating my feelings on an issue. I like the questions about it. I find other people’s honest opinions very interesting.

[miniboes]

Again, it is still all based off of feeling what is right and wrong.

No. Just like we can measure the effects on a cigarette on the human body, we could conceivably measure the effects of, for example, locking a child up in a room on that child's well-being. If it negatively impacts the child's well-being, if for example the child gets deeply depressed and is starving, we can be very certain it is immoral to lock a child up without food.

It is a matter of opinion to some.

That does not mean it is a matter of opinion. Some people thinking something is the case does not prove anything. This is called the bandwagon fallacy.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

I agree it is wrong, but if you was raised in a different area where killing was a normal thing, most likely you wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'd be wrong.

If the victim had no family and wanted to die? Is it morally wrong to deny him his death?

There are circumstances where ending someone's life is okay, and then we can also determine it is. For example; someone is very slowly, inevitably and painfully dying of cancer and wants to end his own life. In this scenario it can be okay to end his life, because:
a) he wants to end his life
b) ending is life stops the pain
c) the sooner he dies, the sooner his loved ones can move on with their lives.

We can clearly see that ending his life in this scenario corresponds with his interests and that is beneficial for his well-being as well as that of his loved ones. Notice that a, b and c can all be objectively determined (although some doubt will always remain about b).

It was to simply point out how we can base issues on how we feel about something.

Sure we can, it's just a terrible way to determine facts. How we determine what is true is through what we can test and measure, not through what we feel.

I do want it made clear, I am not nor will I ever try to convert anyone. I am just simply stating my feelings on an issue. I like the questions about it. I find other people’s honest opinions very interesting.

That's great, this is ultimately a place for discussion. It is good that you are willing to go to a place where your beliefs are questioned.

[EquALLity]

Hunger is a basic living need, either you eat or you die.. But, if you have never eaten anything, of course you'd feel hungry. Since you have to eat, after you do, you feel sated.

So what if eating is a basic living need? Why is that relevant? You can still be hungry without having ever ate.

Just like you can taste something sweet and understand it is sweet without every having tasted something bitter.

Do you really think if you had a lollipop that you wouldn't taste it until you've tasted bitterness?

Astral Projection, look it up.

Ok, I will.

What is your evidence for its existence? It's supernatural.

Actually, they all were saying the same thing, it is unfortunate the current bibles are complete fabrication based on years and years of mistranslated texts/stories.

Perhaps there are some overlappings, but The Buddha didn't believe in a god or divine creation, while Jesus preached he was God, and Jesus didn't teach reincarnation, like Krishna. Those are important differences.

About the mistranslation thing- I hear Christians say this sometimes. They talk about how the Greek version is the true Bible, or something. To me it's irrelevant, because until they can provide actual evidence for God, I don't care. It's just another faith based book without contradictions (so they say).

I know the difference between a dream and a memory.

You might think you do, but it's more probable that you're just a bit fuzzy about it.

You have no idea what the purpose of that cow is. Same goes for plants, they respond to music, talking, sun, chemicals. They learn as well. We just don't know how yet.

Are you trying to argue that the cow wants to be slaughtered? What?!
I can assure you the cow does not want a knife through its neck. Even if it was suicidal (if it was, it would most likely be because through the horrible conditions drove it to be so), it wouldn't want to be tortured on a factory farm. Who the hell wants that?!

As for the plant thing- Considering plants don't have nervous systems or a brain, I'm dismissing the plant sentience thing. Yeah, if you do something to 'provoke' a plant, it may respond, but it will be robotic, because plants don't have the capability to feel emotions, pain, or think.

[remome]

Again, it is still all based off of feeling what is right and wrong.

No. Just like we can measure the effects on a cigarette on the human body, we could conceivably measure the effects of, for example, locking a child up in a room on that child's well-being. If it negatively impacts the child's well-being, if for example the child gets deeply depressed and is starving, we can be very certain it is immoral to lock a child up without food.

It is a matter of opinion to some.

That does not mean it is a matter of opinion. Some people thinking something is the case does not prove anything. This is called the bandwagon fallacy.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

I agree it is wrong, but if you was raised in a different area where killing was a normal thing, most likely you wouldn't have a problem with it.

I'd be wrong. Again, to whom?

If the victim had no family and wanted to die? Is it morally wrong to deny him his death?

There are circumstances where ending someone's life is okay, and then we can also determine it is. For example; someone is very slowly, inevitably and painfully dying of cancer and wants to end his own life. In this scenario it can be okay to end his life, because:
a) he wants to end his life
b) ending is life stops the pain
c) the sooner he dies, the sooner his loved ones can move on with their lives.

We can clearly see that ending his life in this scenario corresponds with his interests and that is beneficial for his well-being as well as that of his loved ones. Notice that a, b and c can all be objectively determined (although some doubt will always remain about b).

It was to simply point out how we can base issues on how we feel about something.

Sure we can, it's just a terrible way to determine facts. How we determine what is true is through what we can test and measure, not through what we feel.

I do want it made clear, I am not nor will I ever try to convert anyone. I am just simply stating my feelings on an issue. I like the questions about it. I find other people’s honest opinions very interesting.

That's great, this is ultimately a place for discussion. It is good that you are willing to go to a place where your beliefs are questioned.

But, who deems anything immoral or moral? You see that negativity impacts any living thing. If we didn't feel guilt, remorse, love, hate, fear, etc... Would we even care? Would we do anything about it? Do we feel the same when a lion kills its prey? Why are we not helping the prey? We developed our sense of morality on how we feel about things.

[remome]

Hunger is a basic living need, either you eat or you die.. But, if you have never eaten anything, of course you'd feel hungry. Since you have to eat, after you do, you feel sated.

So what if eating is a basic living need? Why is that relevant? You can still be hungry without having ever ate.

Just like you can taste something sweet and understand it is sweet without every having tasted something bitter.

Do you really think if you had a lollipop that you wouldn't taste it until you've tasted bitterness?

No, I am saying it cannot exist without the opposite.

Astral Projection, look it up.

Ok, I will.

What is your evidence for its existence? It's supernatural.

I have experienced it. You should try it it is amazing!

Actually, they all were saying the same thing, it is unfortunate the current bibles are complete fabrication based on years and years of mistranslated texts/stories.

Perhaps there are some overlappings, but The Buddha didn't believe in a god or divine creation, while Jesus preached he was God, and Jesus didn't teach reincarnation, like Krishna. Those are important differences.

About the mistranslation thing- I hear Christians say this sometimes. They talk about how the Greek version is the true Bible, or something. To me it's irrelevant, because until they can provide actual evidence for God, I don't care. It's just another faith based book without contradictions (so they say).

No Jesus didn't teach it, he did believe in it. Jesus wasn't saying he was god, he was saying He was the same as God, Just as we all are. Buddha did not mention a ONE god he mentioned many. He was also saying we are all gods.

I know the difference between a dream and a memory.
You might think you do, but it's more probable that you're just a bit fuzzy about it.

Please don't assume to know what I think and know.

You have no idea what the purpose of that cow is. Same goes for plants, they respond to music, talking, sun, chemicals. They learn as well. We just don't know how yet.

Are you trying to argue that the cow wants to be slaughtered? What?!
I can assure you the cow does not want a knife through its neck. Even if it was suicidal (if it was, it would most likely be because through the horrible conditions drove it to be so), it wouldn't want to be tortured on a factory farm. Who the hell wants that?!

To make this clear, I do not believe the cow is suicidal or wants to die. I never said the cow wanted it. I was saying we have no idea what the purpose of the cow is, or what it wants. I've tried talking to animals. They just won't answer me. Really, we have no idea why we are here. Maybe we are just future food for some alien race, and we are almost at the right population to be harvested.

As for the plant thing- Considering plants don't have nervous systems or a brain, I'm dismissing the plant sentience thing. Yeah, if you do something to 'provoke' a plant, it may respond, but it will be robotic, because plants don't have the capability to feel emotions, pain, or think.

This is still being studied. Technically stems could be counted as a nervous system of some sort, it does send electrical pulses back and forth.

[miniboes]

But, who deems anything immoral or moral? You see that negativity impacts any living thing. If we didn't feel guilt, remorse, love, hate, fear, etc... Would we even care? Would we do anything about it? Do we feel the same when a lion kills its prey? Why are we not helping the prey? We developed our sense of morality on how we feel about things.

No we don't. Our perceptions and ideas do not change anything about the facts about well-being. If I feel the earth is flat, that does not make the earth flat, just like if I feel like it is okay to murder someone that does not make it okay. Perhaps we need our senses of fairness, compassion, etc. to actually be compelled to apply moral values, that does not mean moral values are based on those senses.