Vegetarian trying to go vegan!

[Red]

Are the worst diseases from bushmeat though? Of course livestock can cause disease but is wild meat more deadly in that regard?

I'm not sure, that's an interesting question. I assume there isn't any real difference, since the worst killers like tuberculosis and smallpox came from livestock, but since we have some herd immunity, treatments, and vaccines for those types of diseases they are relatively mild in developed countries. There have been diseases like Swine Flu that came close, I think this type of thing was inevitable as long as we eat meat. Again, maybe a disease that causes horrible symptoms that came from a pig or something will smarten people up, but that's no guarantee.

I have to admit I've been eating a little more, but not for every meal.

That's still progress! Just try some of the vegan stuff. Try FollowYourHeart's Mayo too.

I have tried the unsweetened versions of them, the first one was the Almond Breeze brand and the other was Westsoy.

I recommend you try Silk Soy Milk, the red one. It tastes the closest like milk IMO, and silk is pretty widely available. They add sweeteners and stuff to make it more palatable.

There seems to be Daiya in my local store, I'll keep an eye out.

Keep us updated!

[Forests]

@Forests I think @mikeminima256 knows dairy is bad, that's why he's trying to kick it.

Ok fair play. Hopefully he can give it up one day.

Do you think dairy is worse than meat? Neal Barnard, John A. McDougall and other vegan physicians say so. I was surprised to hear that from them but I believe that is what the evidence suggests.

They put dairy in many packaged foods, its even in most bread. I am glad I gave all that stuff up years ago.

[Jebus]

@Forests I think @mikeminima256 knows dairy is bad, that's why he's trying to kick it.

Why so? He wrote that he wanted to become vegan after watching Earthlings (for ethical reasons).

[Jebus]

Do you think dairy is worse than meat?

That is impossible to answer without knowing the quantities involved. Also, when comparing two foods there are always individual differences to consider; for example, if the person is lactose intolerant dairy would likely be worse.

[Red]

Do you think dairy is worse than meat? Neal Barnard, John A. McDougall and other vegan physicians say so. I was surprised to hear that from them but I believe that is what the evidence suggests.

Well for starters I don't trust anything McDougall has to say regarding nutrition. His anti-fat and extreme pro-startch positions go against consensus, and makes people feel weak and deficient. Some of us here agree his diet advice is a cause of recidivism.

I heard Barnard exaggerates a bit on the harms of dairy, but I don't really see that as problematic.

I'm not sure if dairy is worse than meat, both are terrible ethically, environmentally, and health-wise. Best just to avoid both anyways.

[Red]

@Forests I think @mikeminima256 knows dairy is bad, that's why he's trying to kick it.

Why so? He wrote that he wanted to become vegan after watching Earthlings (for ethical reasons).

I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Forests]

Do you think dairy is worse than meat?

That is impossible to answer without knowing the quantities involved. Also, when comparing two foods there are always individual differences to consider; for example, if the person is lactose intolerant dairy would likely be worse.

Animal rights activists that I have seen comment about this and ethical vegans say dairy is worse because no consent is involved in the artificial semination (rape) of cows and there is more suffering in that process than how they are killed. To impregnate a cow, the farmer puts his arm far into the cow's rectum to position the uterus and then forces the instrument into the vagina. Calves are separated from their mothers after birth which is evil. This is completely unethical, un-natural etc. I am just citing what some ethical vegans have said, I know there will be disagreement with this amongst certain vegans but for me it is clear cut. It seems to me the dairy industry involves more suffering. You might want to have a look at Joey Carbstrong's documentary on YouTube.

[Forests]

Do you think dairy is worse than meat? Neal Barnard, John A. McDougall and other vegan physicians say so. I was surprised to hear that from them but I believe that is what the evidence suggests.

Well for starters I don't trust anything McDougall has to say regarding nutrition. His anti-fat and extreme pro-startch positions go against consensus, and makes people feel weak and deficient. Some of us here agree his diet advice is a cause of recidivism.

I heard Barnard exaggerates a bit on the harms of dairy, but I don't really see that as problematic.

I'm not sure if dairy is worse than meat, both are terrible ethically, environmentally, and health-wise. Best just to avoid both anyways.

Over the years I have learnt that some really crazy physicians get some things right and some very sane physicians get things wrong. We must independently check and verify all claims. John A. McDougall gets a lot wrong but I believe him when he talks about dairy being worse than meat. I guess we just have to fact check everything and do our own research. One thing McDougall got totally wrong was olive oil. He said it is causing heart disease and killing people but evidence says the complete opposite.

I understand this thread is not to start a dairy debate, we should save that for another thread. Maybe I will collect some evidence to why I consider it worse than meat.

[mikeminima256]

I've already said this in the Discord but the Daiya cheese @Red recommended is amazing, I think it's a great substitute. It doesn't melt as much as I'd like, but it's a perfectly acceptable substitute. Of course I'm not planning on relying on these alternatives for the rest of my life, but for now, it's staying in my diet.

@brimstoneSalad When you say Europe, are you referring to Eastern Europe in particular (where I'm sure there aren't as many alternatives, and meat-eating is a pretty big part of the culture), or just EU countries in general? I guess that's one silver lining to Brexit.

Will it be all types of cheese, or they're just going to start with particular ones like Daiya and FollowYourHeart do?

[Red]

I've already said this in the Discord but the Daiya cheese @Red recommended is amazing, I think it's a great substitute. It doesn't melt as much as I'd like, but it's a perfectly acceptable substitute. Of course I'm not planning on relying on these alternatives for the rest of my life, but for now, it's staying in my diet.

Daiya is great, but don't eat too much of it; aside from calcium as I've said the nutritional value is nil, and there is a decent bit of saturated fat in there because I think they use coconuts.

Most people who go vegan tend to only eat mock-meats as a transition, and maybe have it on occasion as they go on. You'll move onto more whole plants as time goes on.