General philosophy message board for Discussion and debate on other philosophical issues not directly related to veganism. Metaphysics, religion, theist vs. atheist debates, politics, general science discussion, etc.
TheVeganAtheist wrote:I will play devil's advocate. I have heard it said that pornography is primarily focused on woman, and it is sexist. It has been said that pornography is about objectifying women's body parts and further entrenches sexism in patriarchial society. Thoughts?
Women choose to be in porn. Nobody is telling them they have to, and most of society agrees that it's a nasty job to have. But, women do it and they really make it seem like they enjoy it. As long as there are no children involved, and there is consent all around, porn is awesome. We (almost everyone) have an intense and innate desire for sex, and it is natural and pleasant to recognize it.
again playing devil's advocate, the same could be said about women in muslim countries who are pressured into covering up. One could argue that the objectifying of the women's body is a further entrenching of the patriarchal dominance and any "choice" that a women has is really one of limited choices afforded to her by the society, and not really a true choice. Is it the muslim's women choice to wear the hijab? sure, to some extent, however she has also been indoctrinated from an early age and pressured/moulded into thinking that the hijab is empowering and her choice.
The other consideration is that some of these women may be forced or tricked into their line of work, or just under age, and so are there any way to cleanup the industry while at the same time support it? Do we accept the abuses as inevitable and move on?
If read above saying that women are not alone in the porn industry, while true, I would argue that the largest audience is men looking at women, and the men within the industry represent a minority.
Im not saying I'm against pornography, but I have heard the above argument before and wanted to know your opinion.
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TheVeganAtheist wrote:I will play devil's advocate. I have heard it said that pornography is primarily focused on woman, and it is sexist. It has been said that pornography is about objectifying women's body parts and further entrenches sexism in patriarchial society. Thoughts?
Women choose to be in porn. Nobody is telling them they have to, and most of society agrees that it's a nasty job to have. But, women do it and they really make it seem like they enjoy it. As long as there are no children involved, and there is consent all around, porn is awesome. We (almost everyone) have an intense and innate desire for sex, and it is natural and pleasant to recognize it.
again playing devil's advocate, the same could be said about women in muslim countries who are pressured into covering up. One could argue that the objectifying of the women's body is a further entrenching of the patriarchal dominance and any "choice" that a women has is really one of limited choices afforded to her by the society, and not really a true choice. Is it the muslim's women choice to wear the hijab? sure, to some extent, however she has also been indoctrinated from an early age and pressured/moulded into thinking that the hijab is empowering and her choice.
The other consideration is that some of these women may be forced or tricked into their line of work, or just under age, and so are there any way to cleanup the industry while at the same time support it? Do we accept the abuses as inevitable and move on?
If read above saying that women are not alone in the porn industry, while true, I would argue that the largest audience is men looking at women, and the men within the industry represent a minority.
Im not saying I'm against pornography, but I have heard the above argument before and wanted to know your opinion.
I think comparing the porn industry to the veiling of women under islam is not quite fair. Religious indoctrination is very different from growing up in a sexualized society, as it has them being taught not to question things. If we can promote skepticism and also have a thriving porn industry, then women, men, and transgender people can do what they please without being "molded" into it. The fact that men are in porn as well is a good point. Yes it may be true that men are the primary consumers, but I know plenty of women who enjoy porn. I think everyone against porn should just relax and understand that knowledge and skepticism will likely always combat the negative effects people think porn has.
"Remember that truth has nothing to fear from doubt. Truth withstands scrutiny. If anyone tries to convince you doubt is a sin while belief without evidence is a virtue... you can bet they are selling lies." -MystryBox
I want porn to stay away from TV and movies. If I wanted to watch porn, I would watch a porno. A lot of porn scenes in movies are so awkward, increase the length of the movie and excuses to see famous actors naked. However, this isn't the case for all movies.
5onic wrote:I want porn to stay away from TV and movies. If I wanted to watch porn, I would watch a porno. A lot of porn scenes in movies are so awkward, increase the length of the movie and excuses to see famous actors naked. However, this isn't the case for all movies.
Well, porn or just making love? It doesn't really bother me personally, although it can be awkward when watching a movie with friends. It can really do good in terms of character building.
Recently watched Nymphomaniac, which has real pornography in it. I actually really liked it (not because of the porn), but you really need to be open minded to be able to watch it.
5onic wrote:I want porn to stay away from TV and movies. If I wanted to watch porn, I would watch a porno. A lot of porn scenes in movies are so awkward, increase the length of the movie and excuses to see famous actors naked. However, this isn't the case for all movies.
Well, porn or just making love? It doesn't really bother me personally, although it can be awkward when watching a movie with friends. It can really do good in terms of character building.
Recently watched Nymphomaniac, which has real pornography in it. I actually really liked it (not because of the porn), but you really need to be open minded to be able to watch it.
I agree. There are exceptions. And those movies does it we'll. I meant it more of a mainstream way where they want to please the viewers using sex appeal. I'm on phone so doing minimum explaining.
5onic wrote:I agree. There are exceptions. And those movies does it we'll. I meant it more of a mainstream way where they want to please the viewers using sex appeal. I'm on phone so doing minimum explaining.
In those cases it is not the sex I'm annoyed about, but their whole silly commercial rubbish.
Honestly i almost always go by this rule: "If there's no victim there's no problem"
I even think loli and shota porn (basically drawn child-pornography) shouldn't be illegal since the characters aren't real. (so no victim)
One could make the argument that it inspires pedophiles to commit acts of rape but i could just as easily make the argument that it prohibits them from committing an act of rape (since they got their fix). If i enjoy a good horror movie like ''saw'' doesn't mean i'm going to kill someone.
klonoa wrote:
One could make the argument that it inspires pedophiles to commit acts of rape but i could just as easily make the argument that it prohibits them from committing an act of rape (since they got their fix). If i enjoy a good horror movie like ''saw'' doesn't mean i'm going to kill someone.
Yeah, I've seen it said both ways. In the end, we'd really need more research on the subject to find out more (maybe studies into pedophiles in different countries, and rates of assaults, trying to control for overall crime rates).
If it reduces offenses, that's a really strong argument in its favor.
Still, ick though... but whatever saves children, right?
I've read that there are good indications that fake child porn is actually reducing the incidents. Milton Diamond, an ex-professor at the University of Hawaii, has argued for that case. I haven't read the details myself, but it sure is an interesting thought.
Volenta wrote:I've read that there are good indications that fake child porn is actually reducing the incidents. Milton Diamond, an ex-professor at the University of Hawaii, has argued for that case. I haven't read the details myself, but it sure is an interesting thought.
I'm pretty sure that people on the internet no matter where they come from revere and tend to shun ANY kind of pornography with children on it. When 4chan has rules on it, then you know it's serious o.o
