Philosophical Vegan Forum

Thank you for honest reply, Jebus. I'm curious, do you think that Jesus actually existed, that he's a myth, or something else?

Deathdude650 wrote:Thank you for honest reply, Jebus. I'm curious, do you think that Jesus actually existed, that he's a myth, or something else?

I think he probably existed. However, given the lack of contemporary writing about him he was probably not that well-known. Most likely he was a local celebrity because of his magic tricks. I'm not sure if he was executed or not, but his skills and impact probably began to be exaggerated after his death.

Jebus wrote:I think he probably existed. However, given the lack of contemporary writing about him he was probably not that well-known. Most likely he was a local celebrity because of his magic tricks. I'm not sure if he was executed or not, but his skills and impact probably began to be exaggerated after his death.

Interesting ideas, why do you think his skills and impact was probably exaggerated after his death? What reason would people have to exaggerate his life after he died? The reasons people do such things that come to mind for me are personal monetary gain, increase of power, or social influence. Until Constantine legalized Christianity in the Roman Empire in 313 AD (CE) Christians were persecuted and often killed for what they believed. I'm not claiming this shows its true, but I think its something that ought to be explained.

I'm curious about your thoughts on this. Also if you have any questions for me, don't hesitate to ask.

[quote="Deathdude650"]why do you think his skills and impact was probably exaggerated after his death?[ /quote]

As Jesus lived in a mostly illiterate part of the world, his stories were spread by word of mouth. It is not unusual for people to exaggerate stories to make them just a bit more interesting.

Jebus wrote:As Jesus lived in a mostly illiterate part of the world, his stories were spread by word of mouth. It is not unusual for people to exaggerate stories to make them just a bit more interesting.

You're correct in saying that Jesus lived in a time where most of the world was illiterate, last I read about it i think i heard about 10% of the Roman empire could read and write. However, this didn't inhibit keeping history at all. Because writing was so expensive and education was hard to get the people memorized it orally. This might seem like there's room for exaggeration, but in an oral culture, especially in a Jewish context. The Jews had a tradition that no one could discuss a passage of Scripture until they had committed it memory because to avoid exaggeration. Christianity grew out of Judaism, so I don't think much exaggeration, if any, would have taken place. Memorization was viewed as something valuable then, you can even see this today, some rabbis still have large sections of the Hebrew Bible committed to memory.

He might have existed, he might have not, but he is dead now so who cares?

I think Jesus was a virgin hippie carpenter who got crucified... In other words he's a lot better role model than a slave-owning, pedophile warlord :- )

Deathdude650 wrote:I'm new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts to share on Jesus. I've noticed that I'm the minority on the forum [i.e. a theist] which I think is a great opportunity to learn and discuss with people who have a different worldview than I do.

First I would like to say that I am glad that there are theists on here! Most discussions about religion I have had online has been on reddit, and theists get downvoted just for being theists, and as a result, never speak up.

Deathdude650 wrote: First, did Jesus even exist? Do you have any thoughts to share on a historical Jesus ignoring whether he rose from the dead, preformed miracles or was God?

There is no evidence to support a historical Jesus, beyond the Bible, which is an extremely unreliable source due to bias, contradictions, and the censorship/editing of the council of nicea.

Deathdude650 wrote: Second, in correlation with the first, if you don't believe a historical Jesus existed where did this character come from? Obviously there are a lot of people who believe there was a man named Jesus of Nazareth two thousand years ago who wasn't just a man, but more than a man. How do you think this came about?

The character of Jesus mirrors previous gods such as Horus, Mithra, Krishna, Osiris, and many more.
In my opinion, the character Jesus was used as a tool to convert people, by mirroring their gods, it would make them more comfortable in their new religion.

Deathdude650 wrote: Third, what do you think about the person of Jesus portrayed in the four Gospels? Do you agree with him on anything? Disagree? I'm interested in your thoughts.

I disagree with his philosophy of love and selflessness. I believe in kindness/love to those who deserve it "instead of love wasted on ingrates!" And as for selflessness, I put myself first. I help my those who can help themselves, or if it benefits me.

When i hear persons whom say Jesus is fictional i find this absurd since there were many masters including Apolonius of Tiana, Simon the mage, Simon bar Kokhba. After all masters are some quite known by humanity, such as Gandhi, Buddha, Zang San Feng, Osho, etc..there were plenty masters and i have respect for teachers, but thats it.. Jesus Christ was a man who defy the priests of old and was executed by the roman empire.

That claim i find beyond ridiculous. If i today decide to create a sect in my country and lets say i have enough money to buy false witnesses and proclaim myself an extraterrestrial being from another planet and pretend to perform miracles..and lets say that i have followers already and my word spreads around the world....which argument can be most valid after 1000 or 2000 years? That i was a con artist and managed to make money of stupid sheep ? Or that i was not real ? Humans are very likely to be influenced and many seek spiritual guidance...do you want such example?..there is already someone who claim this.. a nut who name himself ”.Alaje” from youtube channel and has its own clip subtitled in many languages..it has combined religion with new age elements and have thousands of followers...so again....if someone is crazy, a con, or even a prophet (like Edgar Cayce, Nostradamus) etc..does not mean it was not real....the problem falls on the humans who accept and follow that idea, which make a religion for it. The figure of Christ is not only on the christians but also in other cultures..as i point out before...he is mentioned in zoroastrianism, islam and buddhists writings. The best evidence that has been studied so far is about Simon bar Kokhba which defetead a roman army, and the jews made coins with his face..Bar Kokba also asked the jews to follow him and deny Christ which at that time was considered the Messiah. So....even if you hate religion..is a fine line between Truth and Lie.. Other lies are exposed in the zeitgeist movement...such as Jesus is a copy paste from Horus or Krishna...but Jesus has nothing in common to these...since Devaki had Krishna as the seventh Son...so it was not a virgin like Mary. And Horus in egyptology has another story.. I am not trying here to defend religion. I despise it but that does not mean i have to lie in order to make an argument against it...it is going to far.

knot wrote:I think Jesus was a virgin hippie carpenter who got crucified... In other words he's a lot better role model than a slave-owning, pedophile warlord :- )

Well... you're not wrong lol