Hi! I am French from Paris and new to veganism :-)

[brimstoneSalad]

something is weird and unclear to me: how can you all advise me to take meds since it is a vegan forum and everybody knows those drugs are tested on animals???

The problem is not so much the medicine, as the laws which require animal testing. We need to change the laws and practices, and then medication will no longer be tested on animals. This is a legislative issue.

Meat is different, since it inherently requires the death of animals.

There's also a big difference between medication and meat. Meat harms the environment, and makes people less healthy: it's harmful to the world and people. Medication, on the other hand, is more neutral to the environment, and it can save lives.

So, the sensible choice is to abolish meat, but reform medication.

I hope that makes sense.

Of course, you are right that sometimes doctors overuse medication. The first suggestion should be to change diet and lifestyle (such as exercising, and adopting a plant based diet), to address the underlying causes of many diseases and help treat them without medication, and then only using medication as a last resort. Sometimes medication is important, though, and there aren't other good options, or the condition is urgent, and people need to use medication in the short term until they can correct the problems.

[PsYcHo]

something is weird and unclear to me: how can you all advise me to take meds since it is a vegan forum and everybody knows those drugs are tested on animals???

I'm sorry, perhaps there was a misunderstanding? I was not advising you to take meds, I was applauding you for controlling your depression without them.

[eloine]

If you have serious depression, medication is less dangerous than suicide. It's a good option for people with a serious problem which can not be easily resolved in other ways. Like insulin for diabetes, some people need it, but most people don't.

Once we have a more vegan world, we will no longer test these things on animals, and we'll develop other models.

yes that's exatly the kind of things that makes me depressive,
if there is diabete on earth it is precisly because of this mental sickness humans have to make food unhealthy by adding harmfull chemicals and all
and than after they try to repair the harm and sickness they created by using innocent animals and testing horrible meds on them ...
They don't respect nature either animals

and honestly it is not that easy to commit suicide! I tried 3 times and didn't manage, but I don't judge people that kill themselve, I respect their choice and understand it... it's better to commit suicide than to live your entire life being sad and unhappy or like a useless vegetable stuffed with pills
If you smoke weed once in your life you should be aware that life is just an eternal end and beginning and so that this current life has not deep value, only our actions matters

[eloine]

medication doesn't save lives, because if people need medication in the first place is because of the harm humans created themselves (like the pesticides they put in food that destroy our immune system and gives us diseases and cancer) , the mercury in fish, the antybiotics in meat, the oil that pollute the planet..
instead of creating things in a way that is respectful to the planet and other living creatures, they abuse, exploite and rape without caring and once the harm is done they try to repair it.

[eloine]

but the way they try to repair the harm is not ethical either because they always gonna use the most fragile and make suffer somebody that didn't deserved any this, this is what is really sad in life. that for one happiness, one other must suffer

[brimstoneSalad]

medication doesn't save lives, because if people need medication in the first place is because of the harm humans created themselves (like the pesticides they put in food that destroy our immune system and gives us diseases and cancer) , the mercury in fish, the antybiotics in meat, the oil that pollute the planet..

Some diseases are caused by man, particularly with bad diets and animal products which cause a lot of diseases.

There's no evidence that the small traces of pesticides in conventional food are harmful. This is a good reason to never eat organic food, though, since organic food has too many harmful pesticides on it. ("organic" is a lie, it actually contains more harmful pesticide).

Some diseases are also natural, though. Such as genetic diseases and parasites, bacteria, and viruses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimalarial_medication
That's a great example of new medications that cure a very old disease.

Even vegans are not immune to malaria. Sometimes we need medication.

We also need antibiotics sometimes if we have an infection, and vaccines against dangerous viruses. Even if vegan immune systems are stronger, it can't protect against everything, and vegan immune systems are mainly just stronger against bacteria because meat eater's blood is filled with too much Iron which nourishes bacteria. Vegans aren't really stronger against viruses as far as I know.

[brimstoneSalad]

but the way they try to repair the harm is not ethical either because they always gonna use the most fragile and make suffer somebody that didn't deserved any this, this is what is really sad in life. that for one happiness, one other must suffer

I agree, we need to stop that. But the way to stop it is through legislation. And we need to live to fight for that legislation. If we don't take medication on principle, and we die, we can't protect the animals right?

[eloine]

i believe most diseases can be cured naturally, for instance, I sometimes suffer from eczema... all doctors would prescribe me "cortizone" to cure my eczema, which is a very harmfull medication that have lots of very bad side effects and that was tested on animals...but there is a more powerfull and natural cure against eczema which is simply to put coconut oil several times a day until the ezema disappear, it is natural with no side effects but no doctor would ever tells you to do this.

It's the same with every disease, I have a spondylitis ankylosis, it gives me sometimes a lot of pains, all doctors prescribed me very harmfull medication (anti AINS remedies) that get rid the pain yes but harm my heart , stomach, intestines...but there are natural cures to this disease, like meditation, positive thoughts , working out, be carefull what you eat, but none of the doctors would ever tell you that because it is much more work than just taking a pill...
it's the same with depression and every mental illness, instead of stuffing your brain with chemicals or focusing on the problem by wasting time to a therapist , people should just move on and do the positive changes
but yes pesticides is harmfull, how can a chemical not have any side effects? if it kills bacteries it kills something in our body too because we are made of lots of bacteries and maybe that's the reason why some genetic diseases appears
my disease is a genetic one, but nobody in my familly ever had this, so maybe that's the pesticides my parents fed themselves with that harmed something in my DNA.
about parasites , yes parasites grows if conditions are favorable to them, so the easiest way to not get parasites is to not encourage them, but if you kill bacteries with chemicals you kills not only the parasites but also the good bacteries so than parasites become stronger
so intead of putting chemicals on vegetables, farmers should just use the bacteries instead and feed them with things that are good to them but bad to parasites, and this is certainly not chemicals ...but they don't respect nature because they want it to grow faster and faster instead of just respecting nature cycle, but if they get rid of animal exploitation, there will be much more place to grow vegetables in a natural way

[eloine]

what happens in the nature and with vegetables is the same thing as with animals.
For instance Lions are here to eat the weakest animals for that they don't reproduce.
Parasites are here to kill the weakest vegetables that we should not eat.
If we put chemicals on the vegetable to kill the parasites than we eat the bad and sick vegetable, it is not good for ourselves, and that's how diseases appears

[brimstoneSalad]

i believe most diseases can be cured naturally,

Many can be, and most effective medication is natural. For example, antibiotics originally come from plants, fungi, and other microbes that create these substances to kill bacteria. They've just been made or collected and concentrated into pills. Of course, antibiotics have side effects in killing good bacteria too, so you should only take them if necessary.

Vaccines work by helping the immune system: they are just "teaching" our immune systems by injecting dead or weakened pathogens in us to our immune systems can practice on those and be ready for the real thing.

All of the best and most promising treatments use our immune systems, and strengthen them against what harms us.

but there are natural cures to this disease, like meditation, positive thoughts , working out, be carefull what you eat, but none of the doctors would ever tell you that because it is much more work than just taking a pill...

Diet and exercise are probably the best treatments, you're right about that. And you're right that doctors often won't mention that because it's "too hard". This is as much the doctors' faults as the patients, who will not follow doctors' advice if it is difficult. It's an unfortunate feedback loop.
Patents ignore advice, so doctors don't offer it, and it all means more medication which is easy but has serious side effects. Doctors need to be better about this, and at least offer it: one possibility for why they do not is that they are "hypocrites", and wouldn't follow the advice themselves so they feel uncomfortable about suggesting it to patients.

but yes pesticides is harmfull, how can a chemical not have any side effects? if it kills bacteries it kills something in our body too because we are made of lots of bacteries and maybe that's the reason why some genetic diseases appears
my disease is a genetic one, but nobody in my familly ever had this, so maybe that's the pesticides my parents fed themselves with that harmed something in my DNA.

I think you are misunderstanding how these things work a little.

Pesticides are mainly functional against plants and insects: herbicides and insecticides. There are also fungicides which act against fungi. These will not harm your bacteria.
Only antibiotics will harm your bacteria, and antibiotics are not usually used on plants. Antibiotics can usually only be found in animal based "foods" like meat and dairy.

Neither pesticides nor antibiotics will harm your DNA, since your DNA can't just change in your life (that's called cancer if some cells DNA significantly changes and results in disease). However, it's possible the damage to your bacteria could alter gene expression, and might trigger autoimmune conditions.
DNA is about potential. You always had the potential to have this disease, but the environment can "set it off".

Anyway, the point is you don't need to worry about herbicides or insecticides or even fungicides. If you are concerned with the effects of antibiotics, you may consider taking a probiotic supplement. A vegan diet itself is an excellent prebiotic, since it provides food for good bacteria in your system.

so intead of putting chemicals on vegetables, farmers should just use the bacteries instead and feed them with things that are good to them but bad to parasites, and this is certainly not chemicals

Everything is chemicals. H2O is water, that's a chemical. All natural things are made from chemicals. Some chemicals are safe and useful, others are dangerous.

About using the things that will hurt the parasites and keep the plants and people healthy, that's what conventional farmers do. For example, Bt Cotton uses a natural bacteria defense to kill pests instead of spraying on dangerous chemicals. Only "organic" crops use large amounts of dangerous and unregulated chemicals.
So as long as you don't eat "Organic" food, you will be safe from the dangerous chemicals.

but if they get rid of animal exploitation, there will be much more place to grow vegetables in a natural way

That's true. And we also have to use the things nature gave us, like Bt, instead of spraying poison. It's much better for the environment and health. In the future, we will use more and more defenses in the plant itself, instead of spraying.

Parasites are here to kill the weakest vegetables that we should not eat.
If we put chemicals on the vegetable to kill the parasites than we eat the bad and sick vegetable, it is not good for ourselves, and that's how diseases appears

This is not accurate. Insects eat the vegetables because they are nutritious. They don't just eat "sick" vegetables, they eat any and all vegetables they can. A genetic vulnerability to a particular insect does not make a plant unhealthy to us, it just makes it more nutritious for insects to eat.
Things like Bt that prevent insects from eating plants don't make the plant healthier for us, it just makes it less healthy for insects (since it's a particular thing that harms insects but does not harm plants or humans).