Philosophical Vegan Forum

EquALLity wrote: My point is that it's bad to stigmatize people with STIs.

But people do it anyways! I only stigmatize those with STIs who do not take proper precautions and don't get tested regularly.

EquALLity wrote: The flu is all of those things as well, except it doesn't last for life.

Yeah, but the flu is something everyone gets (I actually haven't gotten it in the past 3 years for some reason. I'm just waiting for the impending doom), and it may be disgusting, unsightly, and unsavory, but not on the level as herpes, which are kinda disgusting to look at. Plus the way you get them, it's a whole fiasco.

EquALLity wrote: Seriously? You'd lie to your partner about having an STI to have sex?
Seriously?

I think you completely fucked that one up..
That was a huge misinterpretation. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.

EquALLity wrote: You don't have to have personally have been in a situation to comment on it.

Yeah, but it's better to have experience. The terms "I don't know" pop up in my head..

EquALLity wrote: My point is that it's bad to stigmatize people with STIs.

No, it isn't. It's a reasonable personal choice.

It would be bad to stigmatize them in the way of not giving them a job, since it has nothing to do with the STD.
It would be bad to not be friends with such a person.

It's NOT wrong to refuse to have sex with somebody who has an STD, or to not be an a romantic relationship with/date such a person (if you're not an asexual).
It's a very relevant factor.

And that's the most significant kind of stigma people with STDs face: romantic stigma. It's appropriate.
It may be unfortunate because it encourages them to lie, but it's not fair to tell people they have to throw themselves on that grenade for the rest of society.

EquALLity wrote:The flu is all of those things as well, except it doesn't last for life.

Which is why we only stigmatize people who have the flu for the week they have it. "Ew, get away from me, I don't want to get sick" That's sensible.
People who have the flu and get told that aren't so terribly offended because they can understand: if they're courteous, they don't go around other people when they have it anyway.

The difference in duration is very meaningful. Anybody can wait a week to socialize. A sentence of no sex for life is not bearable for most, though.

I just did some quick research on infections that can be transmitted via kissing-

1) http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and- ... res-basics

Cold sores -- also called fever blisters -- are a painful infection caused by the herpes simplex virus (HSV). These blisters are usually caused by HSV type 1, but can less commonly be due to HSV type 2. They may show up anywhere on your body, but are most likely to appear on the outside of your mouth and lips, your nose, cheeks, or fingers. Blisters form, then break and ooze; a yellow crust or a scab develops and eventually sloughs off, revealing new skin underneath. The sores usually last 7 to 10 days and are contagious until they crust over completely.

Ninety percent of all people get at least one cold sore in their life. This first occurrence is often the worst. Some children who are affected may become seriously ill. After the first infection, many people develop antibodies and never have another cold sore. About 40% of American adults, however, have repeated cold sores.

Although cold sores generally are not serious, the infection may be life-threatening for anyone who has AIDS or whose immune system is depressed by other disorders or medications. Patients with severe eczema may also get HSV over large parts of the body.

The infection from a cold sore may cause blindness if it spreads to the eye, and meningitis or encephalitis if it spreads to the brain.

Apparently anyone who has ever had a cold sore has herpes, so I guess I have it then. I think I've had cold sores when I was really young.
I guess you should just assume everyone you kiss has herpes then, since 90% of people do. But is that really a big deal? You guys probably have it already anyway.

2) HIV can apparently be transmitted via kissing, but researchers agree the risk is low, so I wouldn't worry about that.
http://kidshealth.org/en/teens/kissing.html

RedAppleGP wrote:But people do it anyways! I only stigmatize those with STIs who do not take proper precautions and don't get tested regularly.

They do, but you're not helping by saying that they do have something to be embarrassed about.

RedAppleGP wrote:Yeah, but the flu is something everyone gets (I actually haven't gotten it in the past 3 years for some reason. I'm just waiting for the impending doom), and it may be disgusting, unsightly, and unsavory, but not on the level as herpes, which are kinda disgusting to look at.

It's not just the flu, there are a lot of really gross diseases that we don't stigmatize.

RedAppleGP wrote:Plus the way you get them, it's a whole fiasco.

The whole fiasco, that cracked me up.

Yeah, but that part of it is silly.

RedAppleGP wrote:I think you completely fucked that one up..
That was a huge misinterpretation. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion.

I asked if you'd lie to your partner about having gonorrhea, and you said, "Uh yeah?". I guess you were kidding?

EquALLity wrote:Apparently anyone who has ever had a cold sore has herpes,

What're you, a girl? Only girls call herpes cold sore in order to save face.

EquALLity wrote: so I guess I have it then. I think I've had cold sores when I was really young.
I guess you should just assume everyone you kiss has herpes then, since 90% of people do. But is that really a big deal? You guys probably have it already anyway.

I don't ever recall seeing puss filled pimples around my mouth. My friends call me baby face for a reason.

EquALLity wrote:2) HIV can apparently be transmitted via kissing, but researchers agree the risk is low, so I wouldn't worry about that.
http://kidshealth.org/en/teens/kissing.html

I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who has HIV anyways. Plus, it's supposedly more common in gay men, which I'm not one of, so.....

brimstoneSalad wrote:No, it isn't. It's a reasonable personal choice.

What's a reasonable personal choice? Stigmatizing people with STIs?

brimstoneSalad wrote:It's NOT wrong to refuse to have sex with somebody who has an STD, or to not be an a romantic relationship with/date such a person (if you're not an asexual).
It's a very relevant factor.

Of course, that's exactly what I said. But that's not a stigma. I think this is just semantics.

It's not stigmatizing people with STIs not to have sex with them, because you're not degrading them; you're just staying safe.

brimstoneSalad wrote:And that's the most significant kind of stigma people with STDs face: romantic stigma. It's appropriate.
It may be unfortunate because it encourages them to lie, but it's not fair to tell people they have to throw themselves on that grenade for the rest of society.

That's not a stigma, that's keeping yourself safe by not having sex with someone because you don't want an STI that person carries. It's not an attack on that person at all. An attack on that person would not be appropriate.

If you agree with all that, then I think this is just semantics.

brimstoneSalad wrote:Which is why we only stigmatize people who have the flu for the week they have it. "Ew, get away from me, I don't want to get sick" That's sensible.
People who have the flu and get told that aren't so terribly offended because they can understand: if they're courteous, they don't go around other people when they have it anyway.

The difference in duration is very meaningful. Anybody can wait a week to socialize. A sentence of no sex for life is not bearable for most, though.

Again though, that's not a stigma on people with the flu. That's not marginalizing people with the flu or attacking them personally.

EquALLity wrote:They do, but you're not helping by saying that they do have something to be embarrassed about.

What, you wouldn't be embarrassed? I mean granted, I have almost no shame whatsoever, but when it comes to stuff like this, I think it's pretty rational to be embarrassed. My solution? Don't be in a relationship. You may be kinda fucked (lol ironic statement), but you have herpes, and if you have any moral compass, stay away from relationship, as tempting as it is. These people who have herpes and are embarrassed about it aren't necessarily bad people, just people who don't want to be stigmatized.

EquALLity wrote: It's not just the flu, there are a lot of really gross diseases that we don't stigmatize.

....Like?

EquALLity wrote: The whole fiasco, that cracked me up.

Yeah, but that part of it is silly.

what?

EquALLity wrote: I asked if you'd lie to your partner about having gonorrhea, and you said, "Uh yeah?". I guess you were kidding?

I think you forgot the term "not" in between "about" and "having", and that fucked me up. So it's your fault.
But yeah, people undoubtedly do that.

RedAppleGP wrote:What're you, a girl?

Er

RedAppleGP wrote:Only girls call herpes cold sore in order to save face.

...Er

RedAppleGP wrote:I don't ever recall seeing puss filled pimples around my mouth.

They can be inside your mouth also. I think I've had painful lumps in my mouth.

If you haven't, lucky you.
I guess if it bothers you that much you should never kiss anyone, because 90% of people have herpes type one.

RedAppleGP wrote:My friends call me baby face for a reason.

ER...

I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who has HIV anyways. Plus, it's supposedly more common in gay men, which I'm not one of, so.....

....................

RedAppleGP wrote:What, you wouldn't be embarrassed? I mean granted, I have almost no shame whatsoever, but when it comes to stuff like this, I think it's pretty rational to be embarrassed. My solution? Don't be in a relationship. You may be kinda fucked (lol ironic statement), but you have herpes, and if you have any moral compass, stay away from relationship, as tempting as it is. These people who have herpes and are embarrassed about it aren't necessarily bad people, just people who don't want to be stigmatized.

...You mean 90% of people? Ok, 90% of people shouldn't be in relationships because they have herpes.

It's not even actually an STI from my understanding, just a mouth virus. Nobody is stigmatized for having herpes one; 90% of the population has it. So nobody would be embarrassed to tell you, and most people don't even have to worry at all because they already have it.

RedAppleGP wrote:....Like?

Cancer. Tumors are pretty gross.

RedAppleGP wrote:what?

It's silly to stigmatize people with STIs because their infections are obtained via sex.

RedAppleGP wrote:I think you forgot the term "not" in between "about" and "having", and that fucked me up. So it's your fault.
But yeah, people undoubtedly do that.

So like I said, get your partner tested before sex. You don't need to get tested to kiss someone because of cold sores, that's just crazy.

Update- Sorry, I just remembered, a very small portion of cold sores actually come from herpes type two, which is the sexually transmitted one. However, the chance you'll get herpes type two from kissing a person with a cold sore outbreak is pretty low.

For you to get herpes two from kissing, you'd need to kiss someone who's in the small percentage of people with mouth sores who have them from type two, and it's very unlikely you'd get them if the person didn't have an outbreak while you were kissing them. You'd probably see the cold sores on the person's face anyway, but even if not and they're inside the mouth, what are the odds? I don't think it's something you should worry about.

EquALLity wrote:...You mean 90% of people? Ok, 90% of people shouldn't be in relationships because they have herpes.

But if everyone has it, I guess it don't matter. No woman gonna get near you for a while anyways.

EquALLity wrote:It's not even actually an STI from my understanding, just a mouth virus. Nobody is stigmatized for having herpes one; 90% of the population has it. So nobody would be embarrassed to tell you, and most people don't even have to worry at all because they already have it.

cool

EquALLity wrote: Cancer. Tumors are pretty gross.

But see that shit's outta your control. Plus those are a lot more deadly. Unless you switch to a vegan diet..

EquALLity wrote: It's silly to stigmatize people with STIs because their infections are obtained via sex.

It's not just that. It's the fact that you won't have another partner. Or, and I have the perfect solution: be in a relationship with someone who has the same exact STD! Or will that just worsen the poison?

EquALLity wrote: So like I said, get your partner tested before sex. You don't need to get tested to kiss someone because of cold sores, that's just crazy.

ok dad.