Philosophical Vegan Forum

brimstoneSalad wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:40 am The threat of punishment, if it works without having to enforce it, may be cheaper than the social workers

I love your first part about threats, but I hate the second part about enforcement. (maybe not in a way you'll agree with, though.)

The problem I have is....you don't seem to accept the possible full consequences of enforcement. Your statement makes it clear that you don't want to enforce the law, but you'll feel better if it is in place.

I've made it pretty clear I'm a PsYcHo. I have no problem at all with torturing someone who tortured someone else. You don't want to torture people; I think certain people should be on an express lane to torture town. You seem to be naive on what it would take for "normal" folks to jump on the torture bandwagon.

Realistically, this "person" who has an ideological difference with Transgendered persons is a weakling. (Some little shit who isn't comfortable with their own sexuality, so chooses a transgendered elderly person to intimidate.)

So if this person calls "Jane"- "John", it's okay to lock them in a cage? (the type of people to pick on elderly persons are often weak, and weak people willget sodomized/beat in prison/jail. )


I am totally for violent persons to be subjected to rape in prisons and jails. Are you suggesting persons who say mean words to people should be subjected to the same punishments? ... Think about this for a minute.

I know this is not what you are suggesting, but I truly believe this is the outcome if such a law were to exist. Otherwise harmless assholes who say bad words will be violently raped. Or killed, since "informing" on someone who rapes you in prison is punishable by death per the "convict code".

As my Christian friends would say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Or something like that.

PsYcHo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:40 am Your statement makes it clear that you don't want to enforce the law, but you'll feel better if it is in place.

We'd probably all be better off if we pretty much abolished prisons.

House arrest for people that works for.
Therapy for people who need it (and people who are picking on the elderly probably do).
And people who are irreparably broken and violent, euthanasia.

You're right that prisons are terrible places, and beyond that pretty much just criminal factories.

Without abolishing prisons, though, we have to weigh the consequences.

One asshole who likes to emotionally abuse elders sent to prison, vs. how many elders emotionally abused for how many years?
Which is worse?
I don't know.

It's a tough call to make. We'd really have to know the scope of the problem.

Likewise, in terms of budget when we look at different solutions:

Possibly (but probably not) a few people going to jail (very expensive) vs. the certainty of hiring large numbers of social workers.

If there's a 10% chance of somebody going to jail for a year at a cost of $100,000, that's effectively a $10k bill.
If the salaries of those social workers are guaranteed to be $30k a year for ten people, that's a $300k bill.

The second involves less torture, and it creates jobs. But it also costs a lot which is money that could be put to other social programs -- how many at risk youth could be saved with that money?

There's a lot of weighing of cost and benefit that has to be done in these scenarios.

Of course I'd much prefer it if we did away with prisons, and these assholes got house arrest for a year and had to go to mandatory anger management and therapy so they can stop being assholes.

Bad idea. I oppose.

AnnaJo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:05 am Bad idea. I oppose.

Can you please elaborate? All of us here are open to opposing viewpoints, so it'd be nice if you told us why you believe this.

Red wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:45 am

AnnaJo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:05 am Bad idea. I oppose.

Can you please elaborate? All of us here are open to opposing viewpoints, so it'd be nice if you told us why you believe this.

Red's right, we would like to hear any thoughts you have on the issues. (Welcome aboard, by the way!)

This goes directly against America's first amendment, a law which I hold sacrosanct, and thus I am very much apposed to it. If a workplace wants to enforce that one may not intentionally disrespect someone in their building by repeatedly misgendering them, then so be it. That's fine. But this is an utter violation of our rights. If this took place where I live, then I'd already be having a hefty fine over my head considering I accidentally misgendered my D&D Dungeon Master a few days ago. Immediately apologized, but if this was in place she could have easily gotten me in trouble for it if she felt like it, and nobody should have that kind of power over anyone without a truly just cause. The fact these things are being considered is deeply worrying to me.