What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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miniboes wrote:Yeah, 20 videos is still a lot. The fact that it is 1% of his videos does not change that.
Meh. It's actually a bit higher than 1%, but when he has so many more videos on other subjects...
In addition, he has been making videos for at least 8 years (that's when the oldest video on his channel was made). At some point, according to him, he deleted 2/3s of those, because he got a video taken down for some arbitrary reason and worried that might happen to other videos.
So, that's averaging at less than 3 videos a year. It's really not that much.

Why do you think 20 videos are automatically too many? So, if he had say a billion videos, and only 20 about Justin Bieber, you would still think he talks about Justin Bieber too much?
miniboes wrote: For example, during the DP podcast he watched VA's VS video and just shook off all his fallacious arguments without feeling the need to provide better ones or admit he's wrong at all.
He did admit he was wrong in his video actually; he said that his views on factory farming have "definitely evolved" (4:14 in his response https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGBosdGA0wQ) since when he made 'Vegetarians FAIL'.

He didn't say "I was wrong" outright, but he made a tacit admission that he was.

He did attempt to create new arguments, also. He made the argument that cows', chickens', and pigs' lives are lacking value, so it's ok to kill them for food, as long as you do it humanely.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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EquALLity wrote: Meh. It's actually a bit higher than 1%, but when he has so many more videos on other subjects...
It's irrelevant. My issue is that he apparently promises never to talk about it again, and then talks about it again -- repeatedly. He has to preface his rants with 'and I know I promised never to talk about this again but...'; this is a problem.

The fact that he thinks it's worth talking about at all is a problem.
And this Jason Beeber fellow is just one of many examples of the trite and vapid subjects he tends to gravitate toward.
It's not like the other 98% of his videos are a deep intellectual gold mine. Most of them are more of the same.

He plays a character, he's a comedian, but it's neither a character I like, nor something I find entertaining.
miniboes wrote: I can't answer for brimstone, but his arguments are often not rational at all and he does not seem to care either.
Correct. He has no shame when he makes bad arguments; he either doesn't understand, or it's part of the character he is playing, but either way it's not a good thing.

Most of his videos on theism display the same bad reasoning. He is accidentally right that there is no god, but I don't think he understands legitimately why that is true.

I discussed the issue a bit here: http://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewto ... =664#p6508
If people are ignorant, then they are wrong. They are wrong to believe what they believe, even if they're accidentally right, because they do not believe it for rational reasons. You don't get points for guessing -- that's something very important to understand.

If I said there's a civilization of mole people living underground, I am wrong to say that, and I'm wrong to believe it -- it is irrational of me to do so.
It may actually be true, coincidentally, and there may be a civilization of mole people underground. But I'm still wrong to say and believe that. Why? Because I don't know that. I don't have evidence, or a rational train of thought leading to that conclusion.

If you can not adequately defend your beliefs with reason, then you are wrong to hold them, even if you are accidentally right.

Understand?

So no, there is no case in this world where somebody is right to believe something, yet can not defend it rationally.
If they can not defend it rationally, it is an irrational belief, and they are wrong to hold it.
TJ the person may actually understand the intellectual arguments against gods and religions, but the character he plays doesn't use them or care about them.

The act (if it's just an act) is anti-intellectual, and represents the irrational atheist constituent.

EquALLity wrote:He did attempt to create new arguments, also. He made the argument that cows', chickens', and pigs' lives are lacking value, so it's ok to kill them for food, as long as you do it humanely.
That's rehashing the old one that was already discussed, and not addressing the criticism of it. It's also not what he really believes; that's it's OK to kill them for food, period, and it's preferable to do it 'humanely' (which he doesn't define) but not worth inconveniencing yourself over.
EquALLity wrote:He did admit he was wrong in his video actually; he said that his views on factory farming have "definitely evolved" (4:14 in his response https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGBosdGA0wQ) since when he made 'Vegetarians FAIL'.
That's not really admitting he was wrong, since he still seems to see it as a valid 'opinion', and maintains through his actions that it is not wrong. He still eats it and ignores the whole issue, which is pretty weak and makes that look more like a deflection of criticism without addressing it.

Just saying your views have changed to make the other person look like they're arguing with a straw-man, without actually providing evidence of that change by stating your new views and how they are different is not useful.

His views have changed, but his behavior and opinion of himself have not? Unlikely, unless they have become even more convoluted and irrational.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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It's irrelevant. My issue is that he apparently promises never to talk about it again, and then talks about it again -- repeatedly. He has to preface his rants with 'and I know I promised never to talk about this again but...'; this is a problem.
I just skimmed through his playlist, and he says this once in a description, once in a video, and made one video without saying anything about saying he'd stop after he did (at least in the beginning).
From what I've seen, he first said he'd stop talking about this on Demember 26th (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6l4dXu ... 2nC9RKMPur), and made two videos about Justin Bieber after this. In the first one, he renounced what he said about not talking about Justin Bieber (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS6OFq9 ... 2nC9RKMPur) and then didn't say anything at the start in his most recent video about Justin Bieber (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AERVrRx ... 2nC9RKMPur).
One time in a description, he says, "Yeah. I know. I didn't think I'd be making another video about Justin Bieber either. But just watch."
He doesn't promise not to talk about him anymore in the video, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOHg8pt ... 2nC9RKMPur
So, he really hasn't done it that often.
The fact that he thinks it's worth talking about at all is a problem.
Well, it does get him views. He admits this is a reason he made videos about Justin Bieber (which he hasn't done in around a year, unless I am mistaken). YouTube is his career, so I don't condemn him for this. It's not like he tries to hide it.
It's not like the other 98% of his videos are a deep intellectual gold mine. Most of them are more of the same.
He has tons of political videos, videos about religion, videos about current events, videos about radical feminism, etc.

Most of his videos on theism display the same bad reasoning. He is accidentally right that there is no god, but I don't think he understands legitimately why that is true.
Not true. Here is an example if you don't feel like watching these all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2mjq2 ... HpSg1DopJw
He has made the "The God of the Bible is not loving" argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSRwhWZEmVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2mjq2 ... HpSg1DopJw
He made the unfalsifiable hypothesis argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHH-Pj2 ... HpSg1DopJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NviLvMR ... HpSg1DopJw
He has pointed out lack of evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzyPHi ... HpSg1DopJw
He has pointed out why religion doesn't make sense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBo7Z_a ... HpSg1DopJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2mjq2 ... HpSg1DopJw
That's not really admitting he was wrong, since he still seems to see it as a valid 'opinion', and maintains through his actions that it is not wrong. He still eats it and ignores the whole issue, which is pretty weak and makes that look more like a deflection of criticism without addressing it.
He has stated he tries to avoid factory farmed meats when possible.
So his actions pertaining to this are better than Richard Dawkin's.
His views have changed, but his behavior and opinion of himself have not? Unlikely, unless they have become even more convoluted and irrational.
Well, his behavior did change, at least according to him. His actions just should have changed more.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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EquALLity wrote: I just skimmed through his playlist, and he says this once in a description, once in a video, and made one video without saying anything about saying he'd stop after he did (at least in the beginning).
From my perspective, having only seen a dozen or so of his videos and being sick if him, he's done it quite often. Maybe I just found his worst videos, and all of those cases in the few I've seen? Possible, but I can't watch all of his videos before forming a general impression.
EquALLity wrote: Well, it does get him views. He admits this is a reason he made videos about Justin Bieber (which he hasn't done in around a year, unless I am mistaken). YouTube is his career, so I don't condemn him for this. It's not like he tries to hide it.
Exactly, and if that's what he wants to do that's up to him. I don't have to appreciate or admire view whoring, though, or like the content that kind of motivation produces. It's basically what yellow journalism is.

It would have been better if he had a part time job, and made fewer videos with more meaningful content. Quality over quantity.
EquALLity wrote:He has tons of political videos, videos about religion, videos about current events, videos about radical feminism, etc.
I haven't found any of those I watched to be intellectually inspired.

Again, maybe I just missed all of the good and profound videos, but I can't watch every one of them.

Can you link me to what you believe is his best, most rational argument for atheism?
EquALLity wrote: Not true. Here is an example if you don't feel like watching these all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2mjq2 ... HpSg1DopJw
That was a pretty bad argument, he's making a straw-man fallacy, because he doesn't understand what theologians actually believe.

The real issues associated with that video are free-will, spiritual gnosis, and the theism of rationalists who believe the truth of God can be derived through reason (it can't be). He won't address those because he's anti-intellectual. He makes a number of false assertions in addition to completely missing the point, although I don't like to do Apologists' work for them.
EquALLity wrote: He has made the "The God of the Bible is not loving" argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSRwhWZEmVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c2mjq2 ... HpSg1DopJw
He made the unfalsifiable hypothesis argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHH-Pj2 ... HpSg1DopJw
Those weren't good arguments either.
TJ wrote: I don't have to disprove god, I've not spent a second of my time here trying to disprove god, all I've been doing is pointing out how obvious it is that there is no god.
Which is kind of my point about him being a comedian, and not an intellectual. He's only here to mock. He's anti-intellectual, he's not interested in really engaging or understanding the arguments. The problem is in addition to not being an intellectual, he's not funny.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate comedians. Comedy can serve an important purpose. There are and have been (like George Carlin) some great outspoken atheist comedians who have made great progress in getting people to realize religion is silly through comedy. I just don't think TJ is.

I can't watch the rest right now. Which single video do you think is his absolute best rational argument? I'll watch that and make a point by point refutation of his poor arguments if you want (along with what he should have said).
EquALLity wrote: He has stated he tries to avoid factory farmed meats when possible.
So his actions pertaining to this are better than Richard Dawkin's.
If he has said that, he was lying. Why? Because it's always possible to avoid factory farmed meats. There's nobody going around holding a gun to people's heads making them eat meat. ;)

I seriously doubt he makes any effort at all; that kind of deflection is just consistent with his empty rhetoric. He's trying to make himself look better (and he may even believe his own bullshit), without actually doing anything.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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Holy fuck this is intense
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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RedAppleGP wrote:Holy fuck this is intense
That said, he did very well on Fox during his interview; he was on good behavior. Still don't like his channel, though, were his M.O. is shouting about things and antagonizing people for views.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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brimstoneSalad wrote:AsapScience is on my shit list after their "plant intelligence" video. They seem to care more about views and being edgy than being accurate.
I agree. You won't believe how many comments Ive received regarding the "proof" that plants are sentient since that video came out. ugh
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RedAppleGP wrote:I honestly don't really understand how it went from worst youtube channels to why AsapScience sucks, but y'know, whatever...
You can request a topic split by filling out the form in chapter 9, section 4 of the user manual; it's included on pages 82-95 of that subsection. Follow the instructions in subsection C, which includes the mailing address to submit the form along with the $4.35 processing fee.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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brimstoneSalad wrote:From my perspective, having only seen a dozen or so of his videos and being sick if him, he's done it quite often. Maybe I just found his worst videos, and all of those cases in the few I've seen? Possible, but I can't watch all of his videos before forming a general impression.
Well, did you mostly just watch his Justin Bieber videos?
brimstoneSalad wrote:Exactly, and if that's what he wants to do that's up to him. I don't have to appreciate or admire view whoring, though, or like the content that kind of motivation produces. It's basically what yellow journalism is.
Well, like I said, it’s his job. And it’s not like most of his videos are like that.
brimstoneSalad wrote:It would have been better if he had a part time job, and made fewer videos with more meaningful content. Quality over quantity.
He still has tons of videos on his channel with meaningful content (at least IMO).
I know I didn’t bring this up before, but another thing to note is that his audience (according to him) pushed him to make videos about Justin Bieber. So getting a part time job wouldn’t necessarily make a difference.
brimstoneSalad wrote:The real issues associated with that video are free-will, spiritual gnosis, and the theism of rationalists who believe the truth of God can be derived through reason (it can't be). He won't address those because he's anti-intellectual. He makes a number of false assertions in addition to completely missing the point, although I don't like to do Apologists' work for them.
How is that a strawman? He made the “Why does God send good people to Hell?” argument. Many Christians argue that faith is all, or at least something that you need to get into Heaven.
brimstoneSalad wrote:Those weren't good arguments either.
He debunked the “because most people believe it it’s true” argument, and explained why the burden of proof is on the believers, and brought up the lack of evidence.
He also shows how the concept of ‘Lunos’ (obviously not real) is more logical than the Christian God, and he brought up how it doesn’t make sense that that God would be merciful like Christians say he is if he did exist.
brimstoneSalad wrote:Don't get me wrong, I don't hate comedians. Comedy can serve an important purpose. There are and have been (like George Carlin) some great outspoken atheist comedians who have made great progress in getting people to realize religion is silly through comedy. I just don't think TJ is.
TJ has gotten people to realize religion is silly through his videos. Here is one example: http://amazingatheist.tumblr.com/post/1 ... -now-which
brimstoneSalad wrote:I can't watch the rest right now. Which single video do you think is his absolute best rational argument? I'll watch that and make a point by point refutation of his poor arguments if you want (along with what he should have said).
There is no single video I think his best rational argument is in. I can give you one that I think has very good arguments, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8wYDfvb6-c
brimstoneSalad wrote:If he has said that, he was lying. Why? Because it's always possible to avoid factory farmed meats. There's nobody going around holding a gun to people's heads making them eat meat.
Well, true. He might have meant that when he goes for organic, or tries to limit his consumption or something. But, I obviously don’t know.
brimstoneSalad wrote:I seriously doubt he makes any effort at all; that kind of deflection is just consistent with his empty rhetoric. He's trying to make himself look better (and he may even believe his own bullshit), without actually doing anything.
Well, maybe he was lying. There’s no way either of us could know either way, though.
But, even if he makes no effort, to think TJ is anti-intellectual because of this, you would also have to think Richard Dawkins is.
RedAppleGP wrote:Holy fuck this is intense
It doesn’t feel intense to me, but perhaps I’m just completely oblivious.
brimstoneSalad wrote:That said, he did very well on Fox during his interview; he was on good behavior. Still don't like his channel, though, were his M.O. is shouting about things and antagonizing people for views.
I think it was CNN.
M.O.
Huh, ok:
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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EquALLity wrote: Well, did you mostly just watch his Justin Bieber videos?
No.
EquALLity wrote: Well, like I said, it’s his job. And it’s not like most of his videos are like that.
He still has tons of videos on his channel with meaningful content (at least IMO).
I know I didn’t bring this up before, but another thing to note is that his audience (according to him) pushed him to make videos about Justin Bieber. So getting a part time job wouldn’t necessarily make a difference.
He chose to make it his job and be financially dependent on views. If he had a part time job, he could ignore his audience when they ask for stupid things, and improve the quality of his videos if he chose to do so.

I feel like most of his videos are generally like that; vapid and inflammatory. Including those on theism. His arguments are really poor.
EquALLity wrote:How is that a strawman?
Because the real issues associated with that video are free-will, spiritual gnosis, and the theism of rationalists who believe the truth of God can be derived through reason (it can't be). He won't address those because he's anti-intellectual. He makes a number of false assertions in addition to completely missing the point, although I don't like to do Apologists' work for them.

He either does not understand theism, or deliberately represents theology in order to mock it more easily.
EquALLity wrote:He made the “Why does God send good people to Hell?” argument.
That's not an argument, that's a question. It's also one which theology has answered in a number of ways. It's almost the equivalent of Christians asking "If man came from Monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" as if that debunks evolution.

TJ either does not understand the issues, or he is misrepresenting them deliberately (maybe for his audience). Either way, I see nothing of intellectual value there.
EquALLity wrote:TJ has gotten people to realize religion is silly through his videos. Here is one example: http://amazingatheist.tumblr.com/post/1 ... -now-which
He has such a large audience, there are bound to be a few rare examples (although that was somebody who had already lost faith, and apparently it was a question only Hitchens could address).
The issue, however, is more of efficacy. In order to get the people who need to realize it to realize it, you have to get theists to laugh at themselves and their own beliefs; that requires a certain element of diplomacy, rather than ranting and offending the people whose minds you need to change (they need to be offended a little to be exposed to other ideas and desensitized, but I don't think enough theists really watch his videos to make that very effective either).

TJ is, as they say, 'preaching to the choir'. If he was actually helping people develop better intellectual arguments, that would be one thing, but he's not. He's a clown (and he knows it), and that's fine if that's what he wants to do, but I don't think it's very useful, and I don't find it compelling or entertaining.
EquALLity wrote:There is no single video I think his best rational argument is in. I can give you one that I think has very good arguments, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8wYDfvb6-c
I'll have to respond to that a little later.
EquALLity wrote:Well, maybe he was lying. There’s no way either of us could know either way, though.
But, even if he makes no effort, to think TJ is anti-intellectual because of this, you would also have to think Richard Dawkins is.
Did Dawkins lie about doing something when he doesn't?

Anyway, TJ is anti-intellectual because that is his general attitude. It's the kind of 'arguments' he makes, and how he responds to criticism.
Dawkins is an intellectual. If you could reach him with some solid criticism, he would respond in a very different way.
EquALLity wrote:I think it was CNN.
Oh, probably so. They had some ignorant theists on there, so I automatically assumed it was Fox. He did a good job in that interview (although it was short).

It makes me think he chooses to be anti-intellectual and ranting as part of a character, and if that's how he wants to make money that's his choice, but I don't have to like it or respect it as a profession. It's the equivalent of yellow journalism.

If TJ is a closet intellectual, he should drop the bad clown act and start being himself. Yes, he would lose money and have to get a part time job, but he would gain a bit of dignity and respect.
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Re: What are the worst YouTube channels you have ever seen?

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brimstoneSalad wrote:
EquALLity wrote:There is no single video I think his best rational argument is in. I can give you one that I think has very good arguments, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8wYDfvb6-c
I'll have to respond to that a little later.
His arguments in favor of playing Game of War: Fire Age are pretty much the best arguments in the video.

The tea party, a bunch of politically ignorant mouthpieces that got elected, brought about all of that nonsense, not the republican party in general; many of whom were fighting against it.

Did they hold America hostage? Somewhat, although that's not anything TJ came up with; it was popular rhetoric at the time.

It's also a very small part of the story.

There was also a lot of talk going around that a default on America's debts could be a good thing, because it would force the government to cut back on spending (and more importantly, all of the pork) to a sustainable level. I'm not saying I agree with that, mind you.

Spending is a bit out of hand, and it's the issue that got the teapartiers elected in the first place (it's their ignorant constituents who are most to blame; the Tea party was mostly just sticking to their promise to do everything they could). I hate defending them, but they're ignorant children who didn't really understand the situation. Many of them know a bit better now -- there's a learning curve to politics.

Anyway, that's a very different conversation, but one he completely ignored in favor of blindly lambasting the Republicans in general (who were not all responsible for it in the first place).

He pointed out a couple idiotic politicians for being idiots, that's not hard to do (and I highly doubt he did any leg work on that either- he's just parroting what other more astute political commentators have said), and then made a few wild claims that the Republican party should be destroyed.

Did I learn anything from this video? No.
Did he say anything new or insightful, or even anything he didn't copy from others? No.
Was his tirade accurate or fair minded? No.

Anyway, I was hoping for a video more on theology. I don't like talking about politics.
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