Philosophical Vegan Forum

Brimstone, you really love your tofu don't you?

More intelligent theists don't appear to come here arguing with us as they don't think they have some divine power to convince us.

Dear ry4truth, come back once you understand the big bang theory, then we can talk. I am out of patience.

Brimstone salad,

I am a teacher, I have been for many years. If you don't believe what I say then I encourage you to read a book. Or maybe watch some documentarys pertaining to this matter. Your utter disregard for the truth is sad. Do not criticize others for speaking scientific truth. The same scientific truth that you have so much faith in.

You criticize me for no other reason than to preserve your own ideas. While I spew truth and facts. You spew lies and discontent towards anyone who disagrees with you. You call yourselves theists, but a real theist listens to all ideas and beliefs etc. and then tries to deduce fact from fiction. I tell the truth and yet you still criticize me. I was knowledgeable, factual and truthful. And yet you disrespect me, shame on you for denying the truth. I hope in the future you will not disrespect those who teach the truth.

Like I said before, if you have knowledge, proof or evidence for me being wrong then share it with th rest of the group. Don't just criticize people for no reason. Especially when the person you criticize has more knowledge then you. If you can prove me wrong then do it. Stop procrastinating and accusing when you yourself don't even know how the universe works.

Dear Miniboes,

I do understand the Big Bang theory, apparently far better than you do. Unless you think you can prove me wrong that is?. If you are as knowledgeable as you lead on to be. Then perhaps you can teach me?. If Im The fool you claim me to be then be kind and teach this old fool the truth. I would be glad to learn from someone as knowledgeable as you.

miniboes wrote:Brimstone, you really love your tofu don't you?

I do!

miniboes wrote:More intelligent theists don't appear to come here arguing with us as they don't think they have some divine power to convince us.

Yeah, I guess there's the rub... intelligent theists are intelligent enough to understand that they don't have divine knowledge of the absolute truth™ of the universe, so they're less compelled to waste their time trying to convince others of their unevidenced personal opinions...

Interesting how the more somebody prattles on about the "truth"™ the more likely they are to be liars.

miniboes wrote:Dear ry4truth, come back once you understand the big bang theory, then we can talk. I am out of patience.

The trouble is that these people are so convinced they already have direct and perfect knowledge of reality, that their ideas are resistant to correction.
A better thing to say might be "Come back when you can give an example of something, anything, that would convince you that you're wrong".

In other words, the same question posed to Bill Nye and Ham in their debate. What would make you change your mind?

Bill Nye: Evidence.
Ham: Nothing.

Without an open mind, there's really no mind to mind.

brimstoneSalad wrote:What would make you change your mind?

Bill Nye: Evidence.
Ham: Nothing.

That could've been the whole debate if you ask me.

I'll just ignore the grammar and spelling errors for now.

Ry4truth wrote:PROOF OF GOD

I have had many supernatural experiances, as well as many experiances with God. it would take me an hour to type it all. but no matter what i tell you, you won't believe me. I have all the proof I need, but that proof is only for me. I was marked by the divine though, when i had my first experiance.

How could've you known it was God? How could've you known that it wasn't Lord Vishnu or Lord Xenu? (Okay Lord Xenu is 100% improbable) Y'know, there's a little something I call the placebo effect. I'm sure you've heard of it. If you haven't, Google it.

Ry4truth wrote:BELIEVING SOMETHING

You don't have to believe anything. But to dispell a belief without propper proof or evidence is hypocritical and childish. EXAMPLE: You buy a lottery ticket at 12:00 in the afternoon. you are so exited that you begin to think that your a winner. In exitement you tell your best friend, who thinks that you have lost your marbles. he tells you the odds of you winning, and the fact that there is no evidence or proof that you'll win. while the best friend has every right to believe or not believe that the lotto ticket is a winner. it is disrespectfull and hurtfull to flat out tell the friend that the lotto ticket is not a winner. when it cant be proven until the appropriate time has arrived. putting someone else down when you can't even defend your own beliefs is hypocritical and childish.

Your lottery ticket example it pretty faulty. Unlike God, there are higher chances of you winning the lottery, than having him actually exist. (Even though the chances are still so low). And your "disrespectful and hurtful" claim Is kinda irrelevant. But I'll talk about it anyways. When people say to others "You're not gonna win the lottery" they're saying it to be true (Unless you actually win the lottery, which is a different story), not to be hurtful. He/she is using evidence to claim that the chances of winning the lottery are so small, and knows that so many people participate in the lottery.

SECOND EXAMPLE: millions of children believe in santa clause. If you were to go around town and tell every child that santa wasn't real. you would upset alot of parents nd you would make alot of children cry. my point is that if it isnt hurting anyone leave it alone. If a specific belief or religion is hurting anyone or anything. then it should be opposed and destroyed with all possible haste. [/quote]

But that's dealing with toddlers and young children. Of course that they would cry! But we're dealing with adult, hopefully mature people. I'm not sure if they would cry if you told them that you don't believe in their God, or any God in general.

Ry4truth wrote: UNIVERSE

If the universe deos not have a creator then who made it?. you may argue that you can't assume that a "he" made it. you also cannot asume that a "he" deosn't exist. or that the universe didn't have a creator. science is far too young to disprove God's existance. but like i said before, science and God arent enemies, they never were. science and religion are enemies, for whatever foolish reason that is unkown to me.

Which sounds more obvious, an entire being with all of these powers and all of this knowledge, or a single fast energetic occurrence. Just remove all of your bias, your beliefs, etc, which would you think is more probable? I don't think that you could say the deity. Nor rationally for that matter. And plus, we have no proof of the Universe being created. We have evidence of something such as a building being created, because we have accounts and reliable eyewitnesses when the building was being created. We don't have this for God, there isn't a trace of evidence, at least for me.

Ry4truth wrote: the universe is complex and diverse in it's mysteries. the universe is like the ocean, we have only explored a drop of it.

Here we go with the good ol' God of the Gaps argument. Even though some things are confusing, we have some accounts to why things happen. Some things we can't explain, but that doesn't mean that we won't find the answer one day in the future. Yes, the Universe is complex in many unique ways. But that doesn't mean that a super-intelligent Deity made it. And plus, just because the Universe seems impossible to understand, doesn't mean God is real by default! That would be a false dichotomy!

Ry4truth wrote:GOD

In complete truth we do not yet understand gods origins. just becouse we dont understand something or how it works, deosnt mean its wrong or deosnt exist. it was once deamed impossible to put a man on the moon, but it happened. it was once deamed impossible for man to fly, and yet millions of people do it everyday. as an inventor i can tell you, keep an open mind towards all things.

See above.

Redapple, don't even bother. You will find yourself in an endless cycle of repeating your arguments because he will never actually respon to them.

Ry4truth wrote:
PROOF OF GOD

I have had many supernatural experiances, as well as many experiances with God. it would take me an hour to type it all. but no matter what i tell you, you won't believe me. I have all the proof I need, but that proof is only for me. I was marked by the divine though, when i had my first experiance.

I remember when I was 14 or so, I was stressed out about an exam. But before I entered the exam hall, a white dove flew over my head and climbed into the morning sky. I found the experience quite spiritual and it reaffirmed to me that God was by my side. I did well in the exam. People are always looking for patterns to make sense of the world. If something good or bad happens, we examine in our minds the situation leading up to the event. In this way we try to make sense of the world.

I think sometimes we believe something illogical to be a fact because of this. I was convinced I could see the signs of a loving God. Other people have lucky coins and bracelets and the like. In our minds we might be convinced of our new insight into the inner workings of our existence and fortunes. Might your proof that you say is "only for me" be something similar?

Emotions are quite strong in the human mind. Thinking logically evokes (ideally) no emotion.

It might be hard for you to let go of these "experiences" and write them off to be nothing more than wishful thinking combined with minor coincidences, but if we are to evolve as a species we must accept logic as the primary reasoning tool.

VA, props man, you're patienter than I.
I'll think about where we can advertise to draw in some more intelligent theists... there are a few forums that deal with non-literalist spirituality/theology, they might have some people with an ounce of reason, but we'll have to find a way to filter out the idiots who think they're experts on science because they watched some TV show.
Do you think it would be fair to ask for only people who have either studied science at the university level, or will admit ignorance of science and stick to philosophy? Maybe that could even be a forum rule for theists? I don't know, it's tricky.

Thanks. I think I'm done though. Ive lost all patience with this person.
Im not sure if setting a requirement of scientific knowledge will go over well. Also, there are a lot of people who think they are more knowledgeable then they really are and they will weed their way in anyhow.

But maybe you can make a video on the topic?
I'm thinking one lamenting the lack of debate, and asking whether there are any respectful and intelligent theists left? It seems that all the rational ones are leaving theism in droves. I can almost swear it was easier to find an intelligent theist ten years ago.

Good idea. Im not sure if I will devote a whole video to it, but I can definitely add on to future videos a call for more engaging intelligent theists to join and present their case.