Philosophical Vegan Forum

it's good to open the mind on pesticides, as I wasn't aware that organic fruits and vegetalbes can get some as well, so I gonna study the question
but it's kind of pretentious to accuse someone that makes new interesting theories about microbiology and soils that this person is into "pseudo-science" as pseudo science is a negative term and this scientifc is not worse than any body else, and I think that what he says there there are probably some truth in it, just go in a field of wheat from conventionnal farmers, you will realise that this guy is not wrong, most wheat doesn't look really "healthy" because of the treatment they put on it, it is basicly sick wheat that is only kept alive because of the chemicals they put on it in conventionnal agriculture. you can check yourself with your own eyes.

"f conventional fruit really does make you feel sick, it is not due to pesticides. Conventional fruit has less pesticide, and less dangerous pesticide than organic.
Maybe the high amount of pesticides in the organic fruit made you addicted, and when you stop eating the pesticides you feel withdrawal from it -- like if somebody quite smoking, or quits caffeine.

So, actually you get headaches when you reduce your pesticide by eating regular fruit.
Or, it's all nocebo.

Either way, if you want to eat organic, that's up to you."

all I can reply is "LOL" you see you keep on being pretentious and denigrating, I don't know what is your problem with you people but you really need a therapist for thingking that what you read on the internet is the ultimate truth, you should just open your eyes, go inside a field of "conventional farming" and look at the wheat,
people can make you believe whatever they want on the internet
and the Ewg also say to be carefull about pesticides from conventional agriculture
then maybe you are right on the organic that also contains some pesticides that's why I gonna study the question, but stop being so denigrating, "becoming addictive to organic produe" is the silliest thing I ever read, since you always ask for silly proofs, can you actually "proove" that eating organic fruits make you addictive to the pesticides in it?? and I don't eat every day strawberries (I avoid it since I am not rich enough to buy always organic so instead I decided to grow my own, all I noticed is that non organic once gives me headaches! that's why I never eat strawberries or only the kind that grows in my mother's garden or when I can afford buying organic)
Maybe organic fruits also have pesticides, but an other kind that doesn't give headaches as a side effect, but I don't know but I think if conventionnal fruits give me headaches it is not a sign that the treatment they put on it is healthier than the organic version of it.

eloine wrote:"Now you seem to be implying that there's something wrong with therapy, that people who use it are 'crazy' or something, when it's a great resource that can change and save peoples' lives."
Can you prove it can change life?
do you know anyone who was depressive and went to a therapist that changed his life and cured his depression? usually they just give medecine and make you feel like someone with a "mental disease" that can be cured with a pill and want you to talk for hours about your life !
so yes therapists are here not to save lifes but to "cure " a "disease"
they need to make a living so they certainly never gonna slap your face and say to you to wake up and move on, they gonna make you want to spend all your money to treatments and therapies so they always gonna find a reason to make you want to come back like manipulating you to keep you depressive and make you focusing on the negative part of your life .

Yes, I do know people who have really been helped by therapy, and medicine too.

Of course therapists aren't going to do that. They're supposed to be understanding & help people, not to tell you to "get over it", as if you can just snap your finger and everything will be fixed.

yes I know depression is tough, and it's not easy to get over it, but in my case, therapists didn't help, It is your own choice to decide to do the right things to stop going to a therapist and stop stuffing yourself with pills, but if you want to kill yourself, no therapist could ever "save your life" and change your mind from doing it,
for my part , I believe what was making me depressive is to be aware of animal treatments since I saw a short movie against my will showing the condition of chicken in slaughterhouses, than I couldn't take off this image my mind everytime I ate meat.
But also I sometimes feel that it is also pointless to stop eating meat, coz vegetables also have a soul and it's not because we are not able to understand vegetables sufferings that they don't suffer so what gives us the right to put a vegetable below than an animal?
and even if I am not going to eat animal products again , I am aware that it is not that healthier either, humans are omnivores since the dawn of time and I feel my body is starving meat and fish for not eating any of it for 6 months, and it's not natural to stuff ourselves with artificial Vit B12 and it's not the only thing we lack when being on a vegan diet, like EPA, DHA, taurine, carnitine, carnosine, creatinine, and even if studies say that those are not essential amino acids (which only means that not everybody feels the need of it), never eating any of them is not very beneficial either, you can look for all the studies about carnosine and how it can improve your memory, block AGEs and keep you younger for a longer time ect so being vegan is not as natural as it seems, and not better than eating animal products and contributing to animal sufferings, not everyone care about animals sufferings but that doesn't mean they are bad persons, just they have an other sensitivity, everybody has a part of the truth inside of them and try to do what they think is the best. This is my opinion on all this, but when it comes to industrialisation, we forget about what's right or wrong to make as much profit as possible so yeah for this reason I won't start eating animal products again.

on this website they list the amount of pesticides in each food (conventional VS organic)
http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/food.jsp?food=ST

as you can see on this website (which says they gather their information about gouvernement data about pesticide), conventional strawberries contains about 59% of a very harmfull pesticide called
Tetrahydrophthalimide while organic strawberries contains 0% of it
and it also says that coventional strawberries have about:
45 Pesticide Residues Found by the USDA Pesticide Data Program

and about harmfull pesticide like :
rotenone-pyrethrin
yes this is the reason why there is people like this scientific "claude bourguignon that helped creating a non polluting non harming way to grow vegetables for organic farmers or conventionnal farmers, but the conventional farmers claim him and his researches to be "pseudo-sciences" supporting bio-technology because it is threatening their aggressive way to grow vegetables as it will make it less "fast" because it is with respect of the soil and natural cycle ...so before qualifying somebody to be uncompetent just because he is not very known and published his books on little publishers, you should listen to what this person says...and he helped many farmers to improve their production in a healthy way that is why he has many followers even as an independant laboratory and even on his wikipedia it is written that his alternative ways proved to be very efficient:

"Il a contribué à développer des techniques alternatives qui se sont avérées très efficaces, mais qui demandent une bonne technicité et connaissance du fonctionnement écologique des sols."

maybe this guy is the future of our planet and you don't even realise it

"t's kind of like if you found something published by a publishing house that mainly published Nazi or white supremacist things: it's an indication of the quality and content of the book. Guilt by association is a valid default assumption when it comes to science and publishers."

this is also very silly, (and racist!) like comparing spiritual things to nazi supremaist things, I hope you realise how completly insane that is, I really believe you need a therapist to have such crazy thoughts!! I never met anyone that was into meditation in my entire life that were into nazi supremacist things at the same time, it is radicaly opposite, people that are into spiritual things are peaceful and it is just not right to denigrate them! you are the real nazi for having such a closed mind and to believe you are above spiritual people
+ I checked this publishing house and they don't have only spiritual things, they just cover about all kind of subjects from politics to history and cultures but I didn't find any nazi stuff in their catalog
I wonder then what you qualify as a valuable publishing house? something that only speak about the same subject with no contradiction? it seems like a white supremacist thing then, like everybody must have the same opinion ...a publishing house that cover all kind of subjects and even spiritual things is a sign that they are open to all new ideas that seem valuable and without judgement

this link you provided:
https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
is a student website, so I think what is written in it musn't be taking seriously
as it is not based on real studies
on this link here, they gather the most precise info about pesticides, based on the gouvernement data and studies: (and as you can read conventional products contains much more pesticides than organic products )
http://www.whatsonmyfood.org

than even if this is true that usda doesn't register some of the data about organic pesticides, it seems none of them (organic either conventational are safe, so this guy "claude bourguignon" is the future of our planet because he is one of the only scientifics that created new ways of harvesting to make vegetables healthy without the use of any chemicals either harmfull pesticides to keep them artificially alive, but it will mean that we have to accept to respect nature and soils and not try to make it grow faster than natural , and so we must get rid of animal slavery to get more space to grow vegetables in a more respecful way