Philosophical Vegan Forum

I watched your new video " Vegans: Moronic uneducated cunts? " and I couldn't help but notice
that 40 seconds into the video you are making a huge assumption without any evidence to back it up.
You state that you can't help but notice the cognitive dissonance on display when meat eaters try to help
animals.
How do you know the diet of anyone standing in that crowd? No one is wearing a "Fuck you vegan pussies" shirt
or a "I love bacon" shirt. There is absolutely no information to go off of yet you make the assertion that these people
are exhibiting cognitive dissonance and proceed to voice your opinion about it.
If I made this exact same video and just switched meat eater out with vegan and then said
"Well these vegans act like they are doing
something so great, but that shark doesn't care and would kill anyone of them as soon as it was able."
I would end up a feature star on one of your "Stupid Meat Eater Comments." videos.
The video is of a group of people doing something nice and truly didn't deserve your response. I'm not siding with the people who
immediately started attacking you either as that was completely uncalled for.
I just want to tell you from a non vegan perspective you're kind of acting like a Christian trying to find any avenue to push your agenda.
Its the fastest way to get people to immediately shut you out and not take you seriously. I'd urge you to take the route of only telling people about
veganism when they directly ask you about it.

To an extent I agree. When I watched the video I also noted that this was a baseless assertion (from what I am aware of.) However, from a statistical perspective only 2.5% of the population of Murica is vegan. Thus, it is pretty safe to conclude that they aren't vegans.

I'd say I stand in the middle ground on this. The assertion was baseless, but it's pretty standard for someone to not be vegan. I suppose it's like assuming a person is heterosexual because the vast majority of people are heterosexual.

Cirion Spellbinder wrote:To an extent I agree. When I watched the video I also noted that this was a baseless assertion (from what I am aware of.) However, from a statistical perspective only 2.5% of the population of Murica is vegan. Thus, it is pretty safe to conclude that they aren't vegans.

I'd say I stand in the middle ground on this. The assertion was baseless, but it's pretty standard for someone to not be vegan. I suppose it's like assuming a person is heterosexual because the vast majority of people are heterosexual.

This is very true and is the safe assumption to assume they eat meat, but did he really need to post a
negative comment on a video of people trying to do something kind and ease the suffering of an animal
that most people fear?
It was a meaningless attack that only served to shut more doors than it opened. Every person I consider a
friend in real life eats meat. Not a single one of them even mentions anything about vegans on a daily basis.
In fact none of my friends have actually ever mentioned anything about vegans they just don't really think about
them.
Prior to coming onto this website the only time I've ever dealt with a vegan was at a starbucks and as I was minding
my own business he made a snide remark about me adding whole milk to my latte. His actual statement was "Can I
get soy I'm not disgusting like him." That remark did not help him or make me want to discuss anything with him
I actually told them to put whipped cream on it which I never do.

Imo some of the issues raised are pertinent. I find Tobias leenaert's posts among the most well balanced so far. Here's an article by him that's somewhat on a similar topic

http://veganstrategist.org/2015/05/05/r ... e-so-what/

I guess the way we introduce the topic of veganism can make a difference and is worth addressing.

On similar lines was unnatural vegans video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kz98VBzhAyA

Hey, great to see you back around!

Have you had any luck resisting the temptations at work and reducing animal product consumption?
Remember we're here to help.
There's no shame in struggling, we all have our challenges in life.

wfatheist wrote:How do you know the diet of anyone standing in that crowd?

wfatheist wrote:This is very true and is the safe assumption to assume they eat meat,

I guess that point is already resolved, but this is a very good question:

wfatheist wrote:but did he really need to post a
negative comment on a video of people trying to do something kind and ease the suffering of an animal
that most people fear?

Like garrethdsouza said, that's becomming an increasingly heated topic of debate in the vegan community. He posted a couple of great links.

It might have been better if he said something like:

"It's really great that these people are showing so much compassion and heroism in stepping in against this animal suffering. But don't forget you don't have to wait for extraordinary circumstances to help stop animal suffering; we can ALL make more healthy, environmental, and compassionate choices and be a hero three times a day by choosing more plant based meals."

wfatheist wrote:Prior to coming onto this website the only time I've ever dealt with a vegan was at a starbucks and as I was minding
my own business he made a snide remark about me adding whole milk to my latte. His actual statement was "Can I
get soy I'm not disgusting like him." That remark did not help him or make me want to discuss anything with him
I actually told them to put whipped cream on it which I never do.

That's a good story, which shows how out-of-touch a lot of people are on psychology. It's tricky to overcome cognitive dissonance, and pushing it with insults may not be very useful. But then again, for some people it seems to work, so it's hard to say what method will work for everybody.

This is an area that badly needs more research. Effective activism is incredibly important.

wfatheist wrote:I'd urge you to take the route of only telling people about
veganism when they directly ask you about it.

That's not a good alternative though, because if people don't know about it, they won't ask about it. They may even be actively ignorant, trying to avoid new information (as a lot of Christians do), which is to the detriment of others (like denying global warming). There has to be a way to reach people with new and important information that they need to know, and get them to register and think about that information. The question is: How?

I don't fault Christians for bringing up Jesus all of the time; they mistakenly believe it's true and important, and because they do, they're trying to help people not go to hell (sometimes just help themselves by earning points, but very often sincerely trying to help others). What I fault them on is not being rational about their beliefs in the first place.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZc3Xq8obk

Penn Jillette wrote:“And I’ve always said, you know, that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell or NOT getting eternal life, or whatever, and you think that uh well it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward —and atheists who think that people shouldn't proselytize, "Just leave me alone keep your religion to yourself"— uh, how much do you have to hate somebody to NOT proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?
I mean, if I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you, and you didn't believe it —that truck was bearing down on you— there's a certain point I'd tackle you, and this is MORE important than that.

The market place of ideas is very important, and being able to share information freely is too, even when people don't want to hear it. But we do need to consider what form that information is best shared in, to achieve optimal efficacy.

Hey Brim!
I've made a lot of changes but sadly I still consume meat. I haven't consumed any dairy other than cheese.
I've switched out to almond milk and I try to eat vegan as much as I can ( sometimes up to 3 days straight)
before I eat any meat.
Not the greatest but at least it's a start. I've switched to only consuming almond milk even in my coffee. (That wasn't easy.)
I've tried my best to at least limit my intake of cheese and meats. I found it easier to give up cheeses and I may only consume any once or twice a week
So, I'm not doing well on that front but I feel as though I am making progress.

What you said about proselytizing is true to an extent. I believe you guys are genuinely trying to do good
and help when you tell people about veganism, and should more vegans approach doing so in a less invasive
manor it would do leaps to help the cause.
When it comes to proselytizing I think of it like this. No one wants to go into a club that has people outside blocking
the side walk and yelling at people to get into their club. Everyone is going to line up down the block to get into the
club that has 2 no neck security guards at the door telling them they aren't good enough to get inside.

Some day I will learn how to quote paragraphs and sentences without having to retype everything.

It sounds like you've made some progress, that's good to hear.

wfatheist wrote:I've switched out to almond milk and I try to eat vegan as much as I can ( sometimes up to 3 days straight)
before I eat any meat.

Have you tried including more nuts and protein and calorie dense vegetable foods to make sure you're keeping full?

How about oysters? If there's some kind of metabolic addiction going on, they have the same basic chemicals in them as other animal products. They might be a good stand in?

Rope grown oysters, at least, I understand to be pretty environmentally friendly. And oysters probably aren't sentient.

wfatheist wrote:No one wants to go into a club that has people outside blocking
the side walk and yelling at people to get into their club. Everyone is going to line up down the block to get into the
club that has 2 no neck security guards at the door telling them they aren't good enough to get inside.

I don't think I quite follow your analogy. Can you explain what you mean?

yeah, it's been too many days since my last post... I'm not sure I follow my own analogy now...
It sounded cool at the time though!