Hello everybody, I'm interested in morality...
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:38 am
Hello everybody.
I'm Derek, I'm 28 years old (at the time of writing).
I was born in Poland and moved to England, UK when I was 20 years old.
I grew up in a Christian (Roman Catholic) family, I stopped believing in God when I was about 15 years old.
I became a vegetarian when I was 16, I became a vegan when I was 21.
I'm interested in morality, I want to know if morality is fixed, I want to know how to become more compassionate and less selfish.
I think and contemplate about it a lot.
Over the past 3 weeks my beliefs have changed dramatically...
I don't know where to turn to talk about my views on life and the World.
I feel that no one understands me.
I want to reduce or completely eliminate suffering if I have power/ability to do that, or at least die trying - by educating others.
I'm writing a book about my observations, I think I've already written over 300 pages.
I've never been a Buddhist, but I think now I share some (I can't tell exactly how much) of Buddhist beliefs.
4 days ago I went to a Buddhist centre and talked with a monk there...
Apparentely they believe in reincarnation, I don't believe in reincarnation, but can we be sure about this?
I hope there is no reincarnation, I mean I prefer it not to be true, but I'm interested in knowing the truth, even if it hurts and makes me sad.
I always said I didn't ask to be born in this World full of suffering and selfishness.
Buddhists believe that suffering is eternal, even if I die, it will not end for me. That I will become some other human or other being.
2 people conceived me without my consent. I like to think I didn't ask to be born. But what if sometime in the past I asked to be born and I asked to be born more than once? Was I concious before I was born as the person who is writing this?
This whole thing scares me.
I've conducted street epistemology on myself about most things I believe(d), used to believe and I cannot just stop analyzing things.
I think I'm becoming insomniac now.
I just can't stop thinking and applying "logic" on everything, I debate with myself...
I've never been as confused as I am now.
I'm obsessed with the idea of morality...
I just read philosophical literature, watch documentaries, TED talks and I write about my observations...
I don't know where to turn to. I feel like there is/was only one person could (somewhat) understand me, but that person is dead. He was a philosopher, his name was Emil Cioran.
I agree with pretty much everything this man wrote. Never before in my life had I read anything that would so closely resonate with my beliefs, views on life, the world.
Am I delusional?
I came up with an idea yesterday to contact Anthony Magnabosco (street epistemologist known for his YouTube channel) or Peter Boghossian (the author of "A Manual for Creating Atheists" book) or The Vegan Atheist (the founder of this forum) or somebody else who would care to at least try to understand or explain or comment on how I'm thinking at the moment.
I'm depressed and tragically dissapointed with what I've concluded/discovered about the world, people and myself...
I hope or I wish I am/was wrong and mistaken,
I hope I'm delusional or I wish I was delusional about my views now.
I want to be a better person, more compassionate.
I don't want to be selfish anymore...
I don't know if I'm being selfish now by writing this post, I feel like I have knowledge that could make us all depressed if we all knew what I know, if we all could see life and the World as I see it...
I think we are all born ignorant and selfish and our ignorance makes us happy (careless/indifferent to suffering of others), but I feel like it's my responsibility to tell others what I've discovered so that there is less suffering, so that there is more compassion...
The conclusion I have come to is: I think it's morally wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering, to harm others, or expose others to harm/suffering.
By "necessary suffering" I mean suffering/harm/force that should be applied to stop greater suffering/harm. For example if one person is brutally violent against somebody, It's morally right to apply as little force necessary to stop the harm being done to the person not wanting to be harmed in the first place...
I believe it's morally wrong and selfish to own anybody against their will, harm others or expose them to suffering/harm without their consent.
Therefore I think it's morally wrong and selfish to reproduce/reproduce.
I used to believe in "progress", that one day we will achieve something better, we could become truly compassionate and morally right.
I used to believe in veganism, education and waiting for progress, hoping that in distant future our future generations will achieve "progress".
Now I think it's morally wrong to sentence them to all this suffering they will experience in the process, just because we have hope, just because we have a bigger picture in mind, just because we have a greater goal that possibly will never be achieved, but even if it will be achieved, I think it's still morally wrong to "use them" in this purpose, because our life expectancy is around 70 years.
It is estimated that over 99.9% of all species that ever lived are extinct (on our planet).
I don't believe in so-called love as a virtue anymore. I still believe in compassion as a virtue though.
I think "love" is a selfish tool used by selfish evolution which cares about procreation and passing its genes on and on.
Love makes us selfish, makes us care about reproduction only. Places our genes over genes of others. Selfish idea.
Love prepares parents to have offspring, care about them as they are developing so that they can become parents one day and so on and on.
I think it's selfish to care about a limited group of people.
I want to care about 7 billion+ people, and all sentient beings...
I think compassion might be a side-effect of our human evolution.
Humans have probably the first brain/mind capable of examining itself.
We have taught some apes sign language, but it appears those apes can answer some questions, but it hasn't been observed they ask questions, they probably don't wonder about life and the meaning of life. They probably just take it all for granted. They are mostly driven by primitive, selfish instincts, just like us.
However we are capable of beating evolution/nature at its own game and just stop procreating, let us extinct.
I recently found a website: Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, but I still think this is not the solution, I think it's still not good enough, still selfish, I think we should use nuclear weapons to destroy our planet, because I think other sentient beings especially herbivores need our help too.
I think we can and should die with dignity, otherwise we are nothing but puppets of our instincts, biology and evolution, a bunch of animals selfishly focused on procreation with cognitive dissonance about suffering and misery around us...
Necessary force to stop unnecessary suffering: if I had a weapon of mass destruction, capable of destroying our planet, I would press the red button now. Some people say they want to live. I think we are all delusional. I think happiness is delusion and more importantly, I think happiness is immoral. As long as there is suffering somewhere, If we care about morality, about compassion we must (do everything what is possible to) end it.
If we don't care about morality and suffering, why do we have laws and prisons?
People fall in love and think they are happy, I think we are all born addicted to procreation, addicted to sex, to food to water,
We might as well all take heroin and sleep in a puddle of our own body fluids and excrements on a pile of HIV infected needles, fooled that we are happy...
I think we are all fooled by our chemistry, What I discovered about human procreation, how chemicals like: oxytocin, testosterone affect our actions or even racism (thanks to Paul Zak and Yuri Leonidovich Nesterenko) seems to have put a nail to a coffin of my comfort and calm.
It seems like we have virtually no consent about most things we do. We are an unfortunate mix of our primitive instincts, social structures, environment that shapes us, with very little consciousness above our human animal nature. I think we are all ignorant and we make immoral things only because of our unfortunate fallible human nature. I stopped hating people or being angry at them for doing things morally wrong.
I stopped having sex. And even looking at women as anything that I could be attracted to. I'm disgusted and disappointed with/by sexual attraction.
I even think now, that delusions, might be a "safety tool" used by evolution just to procreate more and more, just to keep the status quo.
“At four and a half months old a human fetus has a reptile's tail. A remnant of our evolution. (...) You can fight a lot of enemies and survive. But if you fight your biology, you will always lose.” - Yuri Orlov, Lord Of War
Richard Dawkins wrote a book titled "The God Delusion".
I could write books titled "The Love Delusion" and "The "Life is Beautiful" Delusion" or "The "Life Must Continue" Delusion"
"Power is like being a lady... if you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher
I think it it aplies to life too. I keep hearing people say: "life is beautiful".
“Life is worth losing.” - George Carlin
“Life is simple: Your happiness will be based completely on luck and genetics. Everything comes down to luck and genetics. And when you think about it, even your genetics is luck.” - George Carlin
Very few people say that life is not beautiful, unecessary or bad. There are some people who don't like life, yet, they keep on living...
Some of them procreate, enslaved by instincts, biology, evolution. Those instincts seem to override our reason.
“Man starts over again everyday, in spite of all he knows, against all he knows.” - Emil Cioran
“If I were to be totally sincere, I would say that I do not know why I live and why I do not stop living. The answer probably lies in the irrational character of life which maintains itself without reason.” - Emil Cioran
Reading Emil Cioran, particularly "The Trouble with being Born" seems like there is no hope whatsoever and everything is really miserable.
I think we can stop suffering now.
I've done my research, which has depressed me tragically (I can share links to resources behind my discoveries).
However it also helped me to become more compassionate.
I used to hate people, now I'm just disappointed with people, in fact, I'm disappointed with nature... I don't even listen to music anymore...
I will (try to) answer any questions you ask me here.
I'm Derek, I'm 28 years old (at the time of writing).
I was born in Poland and moved to England, UK when I was 20 years old.
I grew up in a Christian (Roman Catholic) family, I stopped believing in God when I was about 15 years old.
I became a vegetarian when I was 16, I became a vegan when I was 21.
I'm interested in morality, I want to know if morality is fixed, I want to know how to become more compassionate and less selfish.
I think and contemplate about it a lot.
Over the past 3 weeks my beliefs have changed dramatically...
I don't know where to turn to talk about my views on life and the World.
I feel that no one understands me.
I want to reduce or completely eliminate suffering if I have power/ability to do that, or at least die trying - by educating others.
I'm writing a book about my observations, I think I've already written over 300 pages.
I've never been a Buddhist, but I think now I share some (I can't tell exactly how much) of Buddhist beliefs.
4 days ago I went to a Buddhist centre and talked with a monk there...
Apparentely they believe in reincarnation, I don't believe in reincarnation, but can we be sure about this?
I hope there is no reincarnation, I mean I prefer it not to be true, but I'm interested in knowing the truth, even if it hurts and makes me sad.
I always said I didn't ask to be born in this World full of suffering and selfishness.
Buddhists believe that suffering is eternal, even if I die, it will not end for me. That I will become some other human or other being.
2 people conceived me without my consent. I like to think I didn't ask to be born. But what if sometime in the past I asked to be born and I asked to be born more than once? Was I concious before I was born as the person who is writing this?
This whole thing scares me.
I've conducted street epistemology on myself about most things I believe(d), used to believe and I cannot just stop analyzing things.
I think I'm becoming insomniac now.
I just can't stop thinking and applying "logic" on everything, I debate with myself...
I've never been as confused as I am now.
I'm obsessed with the idea of morality...
I just read philosophical literature, watch documentaries, TED talks and I write about my observations...
I don't know where to turn to. I feel like there is/was only one person could (somewhat) understand me, but that person is dead. He was a philosopher, his name was Emil Cioran.
I agree with pretty much everything this man wrote. Never before in my life had I read anything that would so closely resonate with my beliefs, views on life, the world.
Am I delusional?
I came up with an idea yesterday to contact Anthony Magnabosco (street epistemologist known for his YouTube channel) or Peter Boghossian (the author of "A Manual for Creating Atheists" book) or The Vegan Atheist (the founder of this forum) or somebody else who would care to at least try to understand or explain or comment on how I'm thinking at the moment.
I'm depressed and tragically dissapointed with what I've concluded/discovered about the world, people and myself...
I hope or I wish I am/was wrong and mistaken,
I hope I'm delusional or I wish I was delusional about my views now.
I want to be a better person, more compassionate.
I don't want to be selfish anymore...
I don't know if I'm being selfish now by writing this post, I feel like I have knowledge that could make us all depressed if we all knew what I know, if we all could see life and the World as I see it...
I think we are all born ignorant and selfish and our ignorance makes us happy (careless/indifferent to suffering of others), but I feel like it's my responsibility to tell others what I've discovered so that there is less suffering, so that there is more compassion...
The conclusion I have come to is: I think it's morally wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering, to harm others, or expose others to harm/suffering.
By "necessary suffering" I mean suffering/harm/force that should be applied to stop greater suffering/harm. For example if one person is brutally violent against somebody, It's morally right to apply as little force necessary to stop the harm being done to the person not wanting to be harmed in the first place...
I believe it's morally wrong and selfish to own anybody against their will, harm others or expose them to suffering/harm without their consent.
Therefore I think it's morally wrong and selfish to reproduce/reproduce.
I used to believe in "progress", that one day we will achieve something better, we could become truly compassionate and morally right.
I used to believe in veganism, education and waiting for progress, hoping that in distant future our future generations will achieve "progress".
Now I think it's morally wrong to sentence them to all this suffering they will experience in the process, just because we have hope, just because we have a bigger picture in mind, just because we have a greater goal that possibly will never be achieved, but even if it will be achieved, I think it's still morally wrong to "use them" in this purpose, because our life expectancy is around 70 years.
It is estimated that over 99.9% of all species that ever lived are extinct (on our planet).
I don't believe in so-called love as a virtue anymore. I still believe in compassion as a virtue though.
I think "love" is a selfish tool used by selfish evolution which cares about procreation and passing its genes on and on.
Love makes us selfish, makes us care about reproduction only. Places our genes over genes of others. Selfish idea.
Love prepares parents to have offspring, care about them as they are developing so that they can become parents one day and so on and on.
I think it's selfish to care about a limited group of people.
I want to care about 7 billion+ people, and all sentient beings...
I think compassion might be a side-effect of our human evolution.
Humans have probably the first brain/mind capable of examining itself.
We have taught some apes sign language, but it appears those apes can answer some questions, but it hasn't been observed they ask questions, they probably don't wonder about life and the meaning of life. They probably just take it all for granted. They are mostly driven by primitive, selfish instincts, just like us.
However we are capable of beating evolution/nature at its own game and just stop procreating, let us extinct.
I recently found a website: Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, but I still think this is not the solution, I think it's still not good enough, still selfish, I think we should use nuclear weapons to destroy our planet, because I think other sentient beings especially herbivores need our help too.
I think we can and should die with dignity, otherwise we are nothing but puppets of our instincts, biology and evolution, a bunch of animals selfishly focused on procreation with cognitive dissonance about suffering and misery around us...
Necessary force to stop unnecessary suffering: if I had a weapon of mass destruction, capable of destroying our planet, I would press the red button now. Some people say they want to live. I think we are all delusional. I think happiness is delusion and more importantly, I think happiness is immoral. As long as there is suffering somewhere, If we care about morality, about compassion we must (do everything what is possible to) end it.
If we don't care about morality and suffering, why do we have laws and prisons?
People fall in love and think they are happy, I think we are all born addicted to procreation, addicted to sex, to food to water,
We might as well all take heroin and sleep in a puddle of our own body fluids and excrements on a pile of HIV infected needles, fooled that we are happy...
I think we are all fooled by our chemistry, What I discovered about human procreation, how chemicals like: oxytocin, testosterone affect our actions or even racism (thanks to Paul Zak and Yuri Leonidovich Nesterenko) seems to have put a nail to a coffin of my comfort and calm.
It seems like we have virtually no consent about most things we do. We are an unfortunate mix of our primitive instincts, social structures, environment that shapes us, with very little consciousness above our human animal nature. I think we are all ignorant and we make immoral things only because of our unfortunate fallible human nature. I stopped hating people or being angry at them for doing things morally wrong.
I stopped having sex. And even looking at women as anything that I could be attracted to. I'm disgusted and disappointed with/by sexual attraction.
I even think now, that delusions, might be a "safety tool" used by evolution just to procreate more and more, just to keep the status quo.
“At four and a half months old a human fetus has a reptile's tail. A remnant of our evolution. (...) You can fight a lot of enemies and survive. But if you fight your biology, you will always lose.” - Yuri Orlov, Lord Of War
Richard Dawkins wrote a book titled "The God Delusion".
I could write books titled "The Love Delusion" and "The "Life is Beautiful" Delusion" or "The "Life Must Continue" Delusion"
"Power is like being a lady... if you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher
I think it it aplies to life too. I keep hearing people say: "life is beautiful".
“Life is worth losing.” - George Carlin
“Life is simple: Your happiness will be based completely on luck and genetics. Everything comes down to luck and genetics. And when you think about it, even your genetics is luck.” - George Carlin
Very few people say that life is not beautiful, unecessary or bad. There are some people who don't like life, yet, they keep on living...
Some of them procreate, enslaved by instincts, biology, evolution. Those instincts seem to override our reason.
“Man starts over again everyday, in spite of all he knows, against all he knows.” - Emil Cioran
“If I were to be totally sincere, I would say that I do not know why I live and why I do not stop living. The answer probably lies in the irrational character of life which maintains itself without reason.” - Emil Cioran
Reading Emil Cioran, particularly "The Trouble with being Born" seems like there is no hope whatsoever and everything is really miserable.
I think we can stop suffering now.
I've done my research, which has depressed me tragically (I can share links to resources behind my discoveries).
However it also helped me to become more compassionate.
I used to hate people, now I'm just disappointed with people, in fact, I'm disappointed with nature... I don't even listen to music anymore...
I will (try to) answer any questions you ask me here.