Philosophical Vegan Forum

When does the fetus become sentient?

This question is impossible to answer as there are degrees of sentience. A better question might be: when does a fetus reach the sentience level of a squirrel?

I guess a better question would be at what degree of sentience do you consider abortion unethical?

As for my diet I am slowly cutting meat out of my diet and working towards veganism. =)

AustynKersey wrote:I guess a better question would be at what degree of sentience do you consider abortion unethical?

About 20% of atheists consider any stage unethical.

Even new born infants don't have fully developed brains.
When do they reach the sentience level of a squirrel? My guess would be several months after birth.

There is a point at which we could determine that something is non-sentient, and that is the lack of ability to demonstrate any associative learning. It's a hard test to do, though.

The fetal brain, at least, probably can not properly process meaningful stimuli before about 30 weeks (24 is really pushing it). That's not to say that it IS sentient after that, but before that point it's very unlikely. Without stimuli, there's no connection to the outside world, and no basis for a mind to form to process the relationship between action and stimuli.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_perception
Somewhere between 33 - 41 weeks, a fetus begins responding to hearing, and at that point it may be marginally sentient.

So, some time between 24 weeks at one extreme, and 41 weeks at the other, sentience starts to develop.
But, of course, we're talking insect level sentience here. It takes a long time for the brain to fully develop, which doesn't happen until after birth. Newborns are very nearly mindless, because they are still developing so fast.

brimstoneSalad wrote:The fetal brain, at least, probably can not properly process meaningful stimuli before about 30 weeks

Do you have any sources that can back up that claim?

Jebus wrote: About 20% of atheists consider any stage unethical.

Havent heard of this. Any links? Do you have a similar view?

garrethdsouza wrote:

Jebus wrote: About 20% of atheists consider any stage unethical.

Havent heard of this. Any links? Do you have a similar view?

Here is a link to a 2012 Gallup poll: http://i.imgur.com/0b2vxG3.gif

I would be against abortion in a world where everyone is an ethical vegan. In the current world, I am all for killing babies before they start contributing to animal suffering.

Jebus wrote:I would be against abortion in a world where everyone is an ethical vegan. In the current world, I am all for killing babies before they start contributing to animal suffering.

Except being pro-choice isn't killing babies. To me being pro-choice is allowing women to make their own reproductive health care choices. If a sexually active woman does not want to have a baby she has every right to have access to affordable birth control so she can prevent an unplanned pregnancy. If she does have an unplanned pregnancy and does not want to carry the pregnancy to term she has every right to access an abortion. 90% of abortions happen in the first 12 weeks when the fetus is most likely not conscious and aware.

I would prefer to live in a world where no abortions happened and every pregnancy is a planned and wanted pregnancy. Unfortunately we do not live in such a world. I advocate for easy access to affordable birth control to prevent as many unplanned pregnancies as possible. I also advocate for every worker to make a living wage and access to affordable health care and childcare so more women can keep their pregnancies.

Austyn can you edit your quote there's a mistake.