Philosophical Vegan Forum

I've been a strict vegan now for about 3 months. It's been a challenge--not so much giving up meat and fish, even though I love them, but rather eggs and cheese, which I used to devour like crazy. So far so good, though. My husband and I went into this together and we're supporting each other, finding interesting new ways of eating and new recipes we would never have tried otherwise. The food aspect of our new lifestyle is coming along fine.

The problem for me is the non-food part of veganism, specifically the use of leather, wool, and silk. If I'm interested in animal welfare, I know I should give up those items as well. Not to do so seems inconsistent and hypocritical. But I find that's a lot harder. Do I throw away my leather shoes and belts, my wool suits and sweaters, my silk shirts and ties? Should I sell my car because it has leather seats? I'm only half serious here: getting rid of the non-vegan products I already own is not going to save the lives of any animals or help the environment. But wearing leather while at the same time announcing to people I'm vegan makes me feel uncomfortable. Up to now I've tried to get around this dilemma by saying "I follow a vegan diet" rather than "I'm a vegan." But that seems like a cop-out.

Mainly, though, I'm asking myself about future purchases. For example, am I never going to buy a pair of leather shoes again? I haven't yet checked out the alternatives to leather. Maybe there is in fact a wide selection of high-quality non-leather shoes that look and feel as good as leather ones . . . I don't know.

I'd love to hear how other vegans approach this issue.

cufflink wrote:I've been a strict vegan now for about 3 months. It's been a challenge--not so much giving up meat and fish, even though I love them, but rather eggs and cheese, which I used to devour like crazy.

Congrats! Cravings tend to wane after a couple months- thought they might pop up again randomly later this year.

It helps a lot to have a replacement, though unfortunately there's not any commercial vegan cheese that's much good, except for the stuff made with palm oil- but palm oil is a monster all its own, so it's by no means a good replacement.

Home made stuff can be pretty good, though. Have you made any yet?

There are some great home-fermented nut cheeses. They're not gooey, but more like a ricotta in texture (due to lack of casein).

My husband and I went into this together and we're supporting each other, finding interesting new ways of eating and new recipes we would never have tried otherwise. The food aspect of our new lifestyle is coming along fine.

It's great to have somebody to do it with. I'm glad your husband is with you on this, it makes a world of difference.

Do I throw away my leather shoes and belts, my wool suits and sweaters, my silk shirts and ties? Should I sell my car because it has leather seats? I'm only half serious here: getting rid of the non-vegan products I already own is not going to save the lives of any animals or help the environment. But wearing leather while at the same time announcing to people I'm vegan makes me feel uncomfortable. Up to now I've tried to get around this dilemma by saying "I follow a vegan diet" rather than "I'm a vegan." But that seems like a cop-out.

No need to throw them away, of course. As you said, they're already been bought.

There's nothing wrong with wearing old or second hand leather in itself, but because people don't understand that, and see it as a contradiction, sometimes it's hard to explain so far as wearing them in public.

Although, if somebody asked, you could always take it as an opportunity to talk about veganism, and explain how it's not a dogma- and why second hand things aren't a problem (and why freeganism, even, isn't a problem), and that's it's all about the fact of purchasing something, or somebody purchasing it on your behalf, that causes the harm.

Mainly, though, I'm asking myself about future purchases. For example, am I never going to buy a pair of leather shoes again? I haven't yet checked out the alternatives to leather. Maybe there is in fact a wide selection of high-quality non-leather shoes that look and feel as good as leather ones . . . I don't know.

You can buy second hand leather shoes if you can't find any first hand vegan ones that are suitable. It's not ideal, but second hand purchases don't affect the price much, due to the very high depreciation (most are even donated). Try from a place like good-will, where you know they've been donated, so there's no chain linking your purchase directly to animal exploitation.

As to vegan shoe selection: it is more limited, but there are good options out there. However, you may have to pay a premium for them if they're fashionable.

Generally speaking, we do almost all of our shoe shopping online.
Which, fortunately, is quite a bit easier today than it used to be.

Very helpful, brim. Thanks a lot. I hadn't thought of the second-hand option. I may be checking eBay more in the future.

And homemade nut cheese sounds like the next step for us, after our great success with soy yogurt and reasonable success with seitan.

cufflink wrote:Very helpful, brim. Thanks a lot. I hadn't thought of the second-hand option. I may be checking eBay more in the future.

What kind of shoes are you looking for, exactly?

Sport and casual shoes are pretty easy; there are many canvas and synthetic options.

Serious boots, and dress shoes are more difficult. But can be found non-leather.

And homemade nut cheese sounds like the next step for us, after our great success with soy yogurt and reasonable success with seitan.

Totally; it sounds like you have all of the basic skills to make it happen.

You can use the same sorts of culture starters.
From personal experience, I recommend getting a jar with a water seal- which lets air out, but doesn't let air in.

You want to seal the cheese up well for a couple days to ferment (I like it really strong and sour; I've left nut cheese to ferment almost a week before), but you won't want air getting in that might feed mold growth. Without air, the lacto-fermentation takes over.

A jar like one of these is ideal:

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/wp-c ... harsch.jpg
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v1/529989 ... enting.jpg

I've made the mistake of just putting a lid on a jar before... only do that if you enjoy nut cheese explosions all over your kitchen.
The nut cheese turned out great... but there was only maybe half of it left in the jar after I finally got it open.

The pressure builds up like crazy without a way to escape.

If you wanted to, rather than getting a jar like one of those, you could connect a tube to the top, and then put the end of the tube in water- that will let the pressure out and prevent air from flowing in too, and might be cheaper.

I think I'll pass on the all-over-the-kitchen nut cheese explosions. I already know what happens when you heat spaghetti sauce in the microwave in a container with too tight a seal.

I'll look into the jars you've illustrated. Thanks again!

I'm personally wearing out what I already have bought (shoes, belt, watch band, ...), but will not buy new ones. Even if I wanted to replace it all, it wouldn't be possible since I'm a broke student.

There are a lot of vegan shoes out there, so I wouldn't prefer buying products with animal skin second hand. Partly because of the reason you gave in your intro post—and you surely will be asked about it. It also does give off the wrong impression, that it is okay to wear animal skin. So I would say: if there are vegan alternatives, stick with those.

Volenta wrote:I'm personally wearing out what I already have bought (shoes, belt, watch band, ...), but will not buy new ones. Even if I wanted to replace it all, it wouldn't be possible since I'm a broke student.

There are a lot of vegan shoes out there, so I wouldn't prefer buying products with animal skin second hand. Partly because of the reason you gave in your intro post—and you surely will be asked about it. It also does give off the wrong impression, that it is okay to wear animal skin. So I would say: if there are vegan alternatives, stick with those.

I'm a to be broke student and can surely will not be able to afford animal products anyways.

It's always bad to assume just because a product is expensive that it's a good product. You see that a lot around New York with restaurants and stores.

dan1073 wrote:I'm a to be broke student and can surely will not be able to afford animal products anyways.

What do you mean?

dan1073 wrote:It's always bad to assume just because a product is expensive that it's a good product. You see that a lot around New York with restaurants and stores.

That's a great marketing strategy. Selling pretty much the same stuff for a much higher price.

I had the same thing going when i went vegan.
I just wore my leather motorcycle gloves till they ripped.
I would just say that i also was against wasting of any kind.
Actually i still wear fake leather clothing (cause i kinda like the look) I just tell people it's fake, no problem.

Richie fruitbat had a really good video about this. Can't seem to find it though :/

Volenta wrote:

dan1073 wrote:I'm a to be broke student and can surely will not be able to afford animal products anyways.

What do you mean?

I mean that it's cheaper for me to but fake leather than it is for me to buy real leather etc.