Hello!

[Aliens are real]

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[miniboes]

Welcome.

I agree there are probably aliens, but what makes you think they visited earth?

[Aliens are real]

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[brimstoneSalad]

- I am a Meat-Eater, but would not be interested in a Meat Eater VS Vegan debate, as I am quite happy with my lifestyle choice of having innocent animals slaughtered for my own selfish needs

They are not selfish needs, they are self-destructive wants. It's not a need to eat meat, because you can be healthier on a properly balanced vegan diet. It's self destructive, increasing your risk of cancer, and drastically increasing your risk of heart disease and even stroke.

It's hypocritical to be against alcohol but not meat. Both are self destructive means of attaining a temporary measure of personal pleasure at the cost of personal health, and both have broader harms against others (with alcohol, domestic abuse and drunk driving, with animal products; global warming, damage to human health, and creation of super bugs).

Maybe you don't care at all about animal suffering, but if you care at all about human suffering (or anything in this world) you shouldn't stubbornly close yourself off to learning about it.

Have you ever criticized a theist for plugging his or her ears and going "lalalala" because he or she doesn't want to hear how religion is false and harming the world? That's what you're doing.

If it WAS a need? It would be reasonable. Like medication made from animals; that makes sense. Animal products used as food is just wasteful and harmful to everybody (except the corporate executives getting rich off it).

[Aliens are real]

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[brimstoneSalad]

Nope:
http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-mea ... onnection/

Do you believe every article you read on the internet that supports your preconceptions? It seems like.

IGF-1 isn't the only connection to cancer, only one of the more systemic and popular ones.

If you'd actually read it, though, he fails even to 'debunk' that, because he's comparing dangerously low IGF-1 in extreme cases (which he seems dishonestly to neglect to mention) to excessively high IGF-1 in some meat eaters. A healthy balanced vegan diet is in the middle ground, and doesn't create dangerously low LGF-1 levels.

These extreme cases he's citing are probably coming from starvation (mostly in third world countries), and the very elderly who have low IGF-1 regardless of diet because their bodies are just shutting down.

Finally, it’s useful to put the risk of death from all these diseases in context. It’s somewhat macabre to look at the data this way, but the truth is that the diseases (prostate cancer and breast cancer) most associated with high IGF-1 levels cause a total of roughly 69,000 deaths every year.

By contrast, the diseases and disorders associated with low IGF-1 levels cause 594,000deaths every year. That’s over 8.5 times as many deaths!

This is a little clip that demonstrates his dishonesty.
"Durr, high IGF-1 isn't so bad because too low IGF-1 is worse!"
It doesn't work like that. You can't reference a low IGF-1 level in dying people and pretend that correlation is causation.
Causal links are carefully established through mechanism. Dying from old age or starvation cause low IGF-1, not the other way around.

At what age are these 69,000 people dying?
At what age are these 594,000 dying? And from what exactly?

It's so easy to lie with statistics, and that's what he's doing here.


Of course meat causes cancer. This is obvious, both mechanically through known mechanism of action, and in population studies. Some vegetable foods do too; not all vegan diets are anti-cancer diets.
However, to date the evidence shows that the best anti-cancer diet is a particular kind of vegan diet rich in anti-cancer vegetables and low in methionine. Anything else is comparatively pro-cancer to varying degrees.

Also, your analogy about the theist plugging their ears and going "lalalalala" is incorrect as this typically happens with theists who are deliberately bothering somebody trying to get them to convert, whereas I have already stated that I am NOT interested in any Veg VS Meat debates and I will leave you to have whatever diet you wish.

Ohh, so if the theist isn't trying to convert anybody, and is only, for example, trying to kill all of the infidels (not convert them), then you don't mind?

See, here I thought it was a problem that religious fundamentalists were killing people. But if it's OK when meat eaters kill people for their dogmas, then I guess it's fine for Islamic extremists to do so too, right? We shouldn't criticize their religious beliefs that are making them do that, right?

[Aliens are real]

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[Cirion Spellbinder]

I am not trying to kill off vegans by getting them to eat meat, this conversation is over.

That's certainly what brimstoneSalad's statement sounded like... Maybe he should elaborate on what she meant by that.

I'd still recommend refuting the criticism brimstoneSalad made of the article you presented.

[Aliens are real]

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[brimstoneSalad]

That's certainly what brimstoneSalad's statement sounded like... Maybe he should elaborate on what she meant by that.

The argument he seemed to be making was that since he's not trying to convert anybody, that's fine.

It's not fine, because he's still doing harm; just as the dogma of religious fundamentalists does even when they aren't trying to convert people.

He's doing that harm to other human beings through pollution, global warming, and creating antibiotic resistant super bugs, rather than directly with explosives or machetes, but nonetheless his dogma is comparably culpable for human harm as is religious fundamentalism; and probably much more so in the very near future since carnism is more harmful than fundamentalism.

The only difference is his violence is not discriminating; carnists will suffer along side anybody else from the effects of disease and climate change (even more so, due to the additional health effects).

I'd still recommend refuting the criticism brimstoneSalad made of the article you presented.

If he's not going to have the integrity to back up an argument he makes, then he shouldn't make it to begin with.

"Aliens are real", this is a debate forum. If you hold positions you are unwilling to challenge and discuss rationally, and you just want to spam links for your dogma and not back them up, you may be asked to leave. You will need to address arguments here. Theists are held to the same standard, and are also required to address arguments. Any views and beliefs are welcome here as long as they are supported by argument. Read the forum rules:

https://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewt ... ?f=11&t=52

It is not appropriate to declare your claims beyond contention as you just did. You posted that link: now you have the responsibility to back it up.
You can make any argument you want, or cuss me out while you do so, but not making any argument at all is against forum rules.
Unless you are simply conceding defeat, and admitting you are wrong: That's fine. Open mindedness is certainly welcome, and you're allowed to change your views during a discussion.