More questions than answers

[gentlynancy]

Hi everyone

I'm Nancy, born and raised in Tanzania, currently living in Shanghai studying Anthropology. I guess I would say I'm vegetarian. I drink a glass of milk once or twice a week as a dietary supplement thats because I'm still figuring out whether or not civilizations can thrive on zero animal products. I try to imagine a world where everyone is vegan and I think about how some foods would have to either have to be outsourced or mass produced in a not so sustainable way in order to meet the dietary requirements for everyone which could end up being just as bad for the planet carbon-print wise.

My mom's village is known for eating a certain kind of grasshoppers called "senene". I learned that this is typical of places that couldn’t get enough animal protein in their environment. The interesting thing is they've always been made fun of by other tribes for eating insects which tells me that when we(as a specie) find a more nutrient dense option we have no desire for that which offers us less. But if the same people switched geographic locations and found themselves having no animal products around them they would look for missing nutrients in insects as well. What I usually ask myself is why do people in places like my mom's village resort to eating insects instead of adopting a vegan lifestyle when animals are in short supply? Its not just in Africa but some places of Asia as well.

Aah well, I'm still working on reconciling my thoughts on it.

I’m still in that phase where I have more questions than answers so when I learned about this forum from a Youtube Channel called Unnatural Vegan I thought I'd come take a look around and maybe I could learn a thing or two.

[Jebus]

Welcome Nancy. Which nutrient are you concerned may not be present in a vegan diet?

[brimstoneSalad]

Hi Nancy, welcome!

You're not getting anything meaningful from milk you couldn't be getting from vegetables. Milk contains a small amount of B-12, but is not a good source.
You should be taking a B-12 supplement, which is made by bacteria (which is a very eco friendly and sustainable process, similar to how vinegar is made, just a different kind of bacteria).

You should be able to get vitamin B-12 from a local pharmacy or vitamin store, or order online. It's easy to find in China, as a small pill, or as a shot (it's your choice, I recommend the pill).
http://world.taobao.com/item/45636902601.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.lGcFCr#detail
This was the first hit I got on taobao for: b-12 cyanocobalamin
Take a pill (dissolve in your mouth) once or twice a week. You want 1,000 mcg, once or twice a week.

If you're in a poor area (I don't really know what would have been available in Africa) and you can not find a B-12 supplement, then eat one oyster each week, or around 100 grams of Earth worms each week, or possibly insects.
Always try to choose the least sentient animal to eat, if you can not find B-12.
That should keep you from getting sick.

However, a vitamin is better and more reliable.

What I usually ask myself is why do people in places like my mom's village resort to eating insects instead of adopting a vegan lifestyle when animals are in short supply?

1. Insects are animals, of course
They just aren't as sentient as higher animals.

2. Humans need B-12, which comes from bacteria. In the "wild" our relatives engage in coprophagy, as do most other herbivores. Feces is a rich source of B-12, but it can be dangerous for other reasons.
While gorillas and chimps eat feces, I recommend that humans do not do this. It's not a very safe practice.

3. Beyond that, the quality of plant foods they have access to in Africa may be low. What are some of the staples you eat or ate?

Cassava, rice, and corn (for example) are not high quality plant foods.

In China, choose tofu and green vegetables (I recommend more than 500 grams a day of dark green, or more than 1kg of lighter green veggies), and eat a handful of walnuts every day for essential fatty acids (omega 3).
Avoid eating white or brown rice -- those are too low in nutrition. Wheat noodles or boiled/baked (not fried) potatoes are better.


I hope you like it here. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.

[gentlynancy]

Welcome Nancy. Which nutrient are you concerned may not be present in a vegan diet?

Hi Jebus, thank you. I think is there is so much about the body we dont know and even more that we dont even know that we don't know... the fact that we have no record of any culture that was vegan worries me a little bit. But then again I've been impressed by one Annette Larkins, she has a Youtube channel, she's sort of in the extreme end of things but it makes me think that maybe we can survive only on plants.

I'm on the look out for more evidence that its safe

[gentlynancy]

Hi Nancy, welcome!

You're not getting anything meaningful from milk you couldn't be getting from vegetables. Milk contains a small amount of B-12, but is not a good source.
You should be taking a B-12 supplement, which is made by bacteria (which is a very eco friendly and sustainable process, similar to how vinegar is made, just a different kind of bacteria).

You should be able to get vitamin B-12 from a local pharmacy or vitamin store, or order online. It's easy to find in China, as a small pill, or as a shot (it's your choice, I recommend the pill).
http://world.taobao.com/item/4563690260 ... FCr#detail
This was the first hit I got on taobao for: b-12 cyanocobalamin
Take a pill (dissolve in your mouth) once or twice a week. You want 1,000 mcg, once or twice a week.

If you're in a poor area (I don't really know what would have been available in Africa) and you can not find a B-12 supplement, then eat one oyster each week, or around 100 grams of Earth worms each week, or possibly insects.
Always try to choose the least sentient animal to eat, if you can not find B-12.
That should keep you from getting sick.

However, a vitamin is better and more reliable.

What I usually ask myself is why do people in places like my mom's village resort to eating insects instead of adopting a vegan lifestyle when animals are in short supply?

1. Insects are animals, of course
They just aren't as sentient as higher animals.

2. Humans need B-12, which comes from bacteria. In the "wild" our relatives engage in coprophagy, as do most other herbivores. Feces is a rich source of B-12, but it can be dangerous for other reasons.
While gorillas and chimps eat feces, I recommend that humans do not do this. It's not a very safe practice.

3. Beyond that, the quality of plant foods they have access to in Africa may be low. What are some of the staples you eat or ate?

Cassava, rice, and corn (for example) are not high quality plant foods.

In China, choose tofu and green vegetables (I recommend more than 500 grams a day of dark green, or more than 1kg of lighter green veggies), and eat a handful of walnuts every day for essential fatty acids (omega 3).
Avoid eating white or brown rice -- those are too low in nutrition. Wheat noodles or boiled/baked (not fried) potatoes are better.


I hope you like it here. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.

That was extremely helpful thank you! I can't think of anything else right now