Please help!

[teo123]

My mother believes that our house has been attacked by Satan and that simply destroyed our entire family. She even accuses me because I am a "satanist", while I am just simply an atheist. And, she sees the agency of satan virtually everywhere. Since she got fired from a job (she was a professor and she was, probably falsely, accused of abusing children), she accuses our neighbors of cursing us, and since our grandmother got a bit senile (and also paranoid) and been hearing voices that are not actually there, she believes that she hears voices form demons possessing our house (naturally, she is not kind to her either, she calls her a witch). When I try to talk to her about it, and she brings that topic again and again, she calls me childish and stupid for not believing in the "world of evil, when I can see clear evidence of it in front of my face".
I can understand (kind of) why would people believe in god (at least that is normal for a society that we live in), but I really don't understand why would people believe in Satan and demons. She even seems to realize that her arguments are simply ridiculous (me not having an explanation for everything bad that happens to us), but she doesn't change her beliefs.
So, what do you think, how should I deal with it?

[EquALLity]

My mother believes that our house has been attacked by Satan and that simply destroyed our entire family. She even accuses me because I am a "satanist", while I am just simply an atheist. And, she sees the agency of satan virtually everywhere. Since she got fired from a job (she was a professor and she was, probably falsely, accused of abusing children), she accuses our neighbors of cursing us, and since our grandmother got a bit senile (and also paranoid) and been hearing voices that are not actually there, she believes that she hears voices form demons possessing our house (naturally, she is not kind to her either, she calls her a witch). When I try to talk to her about it, and she brings that topic again and again, she calls me childish and stupid for not believing in the "world of evil, when I can see clear evidence of it in front of my face".

Wow.

Er... Maybe just try to totally avoid the subject of religion with her from now on? She doesn't really sound open-minded, so discussing it with her seems like it'd only cause annoyance.

And welcome to the forum! You should make an intro.

[brimstoneSalad]

I would contact the authorities. It sounds like she needs to be committed. That kind of behavior is often a sign of mental illness. Is there anybody else who can take care of you, or can you be emancipated?

[teo123]

I would contact the authorities. It sounds like she needs to be committed.

I don't think that's a right thing to do. My mother has already been sued for child abuse. If she gets sued for abusing another child, she will end up in jail. You wouldn't want that to happen to your mum, right?

That kind of behavior is often a sign of mental illness.

So, what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that I shouldn't even try to bring her to reasoning? If the only arguments she can make are ad-hominem attacks, that doesn't mean that I should do that. I thought you will help me in debating with her, but as far as I can see, you don't.

Is there anybody else who can take care of you, or can you be emancipated?

Look, I am only 16 and I want to finish my school. I don't want to end up doing some minimum wage job as an excellent student. No, I don't have someone to take care of me, my parents got divorced, and I am not in any kind of relationship with my father. I haven't seen him for years. And my mum tells me he is mentally ill, so I am even a bit afraid of him. Also, do you have any idea what might happen to my grandmother?
So, yeah, I don't think that's a good option.
Any other suggestion?

[brimstoneSalad]

I would contact the authorities. It sounds like she needs to be committed.

I don't think that's a right thing to do. My mother has already been sued for child abuse. If she gets sued for abusing another child, she will end up in jail. You wouldn't want that to happen to your mum, right?

I don't think you understand. She seems to be suffering from mental illness. She will not go to jail; she will be committed to receive psychiatric help. She may be schizophrenic, and just need medication for that. If she is medicated, it could save her life.

Yes, if my mother had mental health problems and thought the devil was influencing everything around her, I would want her to receive help for that -- even against her will.

So, what is that supposed to mean? Are you saying that I shouldn't even try to bring her to reasoning? If the only arguments she can make are ad-hominem attacks, that doesn't mean that I should do that. I thought you will help me in debating with her, but as far as I can see, you don't.

That is what I am saying, yes. If she is suffering from mental illness, you can't argue her out of it; you aren't a trained professional. She needs professional help for that.
She may just need medication, and this could all just go away.

You're smart, you've already presented good arguments. She's not arguing back, she's just attacking. If she was engaging and discussing with you, it would be possible.

Also, do you have any idea what might happen to my grandmother?

No.
It sounds like the care she currently gets is abusive though.

Where do you live? You could anonymously contact the authorities, and ask them what would happen to your grandmother if your mother were committed.

So, yeah, I don't think that's a good option.
Any other suggestion?

Your only other option is to just avoid discussing it, or pretend to be a Christian for the next few years (around your mother) until you have finished school and get a good job.

You are 16, though. I would recommend emancipation if the situation becomes worse or you can't bear to pretend.

[teo123]

brimstoneSalad , I think that my mother is not mentally ill, and here are my reasons for it. Correct me if I am wrong.
I admit, you are not the only one who calls my mother schizophrenic, but I think that most of the people don't know how a real mentally ill person looks like. And I know because my grandmother is. My mother doesn't think that there are soldiers flooding our garden to starve us to death, but my grandmother does. My grandmother also has invisible friends (who sometimes tell her they want to kill her) who tell her they are going to meet her in the midnight and make her wake the whole house up. My mother doesn't.
Also, my arguments are not logically valid, I realize that just like my mother does. They are just arguments from ignorance, incredulity and probability. And I understand why they don't convince a person that actually believes in Satan. That's why I am asking you for better arguments that might be more helpful.
My mother doesn't hallucinate, or at least doesn't claim to. She has arguments for believing in Satan (evil in the world), but they are just ridiculous.
As for how my mother treats my grandmother, she doesn't give her medication that psychiatrist prescribed her because she thinks it is better for her to be crazy than to sleep for the rest of her life. I don't know who else would do the same thing for her but my mum. Everyone will put her to sleep for selfish reasons. And she doesn't hate my grandmother, she goes to spiritual renewals and prays for her there (and I don't think that actually helps).
And, since I don't think my mother can't be brought to reason, I don't think that pretending to believe in what she believes is a good option. I just simply don't believe in white lies, especially when they last almost a decade (if I am going to live with her while I am studying at university).
Sorry for being so wordy, but I feel obligated to make stuff clear (even about my personal issues).

[Varshi]

I think your first post was very alarming, so the responders were trying to make sure you are safe.
If you think that your mother does not suffer from a mental illness and doesn't seem to be exhibiting the signs (I would refer to the DSM5 for proper information (we can have a debate on that document later)), you *might * be able to change her mind.

Try starting small, something that she doesn't hold as closely to her core belief system and see if she is open to examine that part. Walk through with her as she herself examines that belief and point out assumptions that she made. It be best to do this in an emotionally discharged environment and somewhere safe, where she will feel that she can be honest with herself. Don't be forceful and attack, she will instantly want to defend herself.

If she says that something is "obvious " or "clearly", then ask to explain - tell her that it is not obvious to you and that you'd like to understand her point of view.

I once remember a coworker telling me "I don't understand how people don't belive in God. There are mental disorders that are cause by demons, which means there are angels,which means there is a God." And she was absolutely serious. I told her, well you are assuming that mental disorders are cause by demons , to which she replied, "well if not by them then by what?" And I told her "chemical imbalances in the brain,for example ".
I didn't convince her there and then that there is no God, but she couldn't refute my point and accepted it (we had a good relationship before and after).

Hopefully that helps and gets you started. Remember to take small steps and count your victories, you are not going to convince her there is no God in one day. And I would set my goal as to convince her Satan is not targeting your house.

Remember, if the change is behaviour was dramatic and followed a stressful situation , it could be just her way of couping by rationalizing all the bad things that are happening to her. So maybe even taking some of her load off by helping out may help her ease up (I'm making assumptions here about her stress levels with loss of job and a mentally ill mother).

Also remember that mental illness is not out of the question- it could be a different condition from your grandmother's or manifesting in a different manner or just hasn't got as bad as your grandmother's yet. I would stay watchful and consult a proper diagnostic manual.

[TanithDaUnicorn]

Well, they are breaking the law, schools are not allowed to force Children to pray, so just simply say "I do not wish to pray, and they law protects me, it's part of the Freedom of religion act, it's the law that you cannot force me to pray to something in which I do not believe" They should realize you're too smart to be tricked into praying for them,if they still force you, reach out to the authorities. They are breaking the law and should stop.

[JadeSpeedster17]

I've had the same problem, by step dad claims he's been possessed... An yes he's been branded officially crazy after he got from the war. But this 'possession' took place when he was a child. I don't know what to say to him really, other then stare at him with a 'WTF' look on my face. Not much you really can do, some people are just overly paranoid about things they don't understand, and in hard times people resort to 'demons did it' as they have nothing else to explain it as. Or they refuse to believe they are the problem or that these things just happen.

That is my conclusion anyway.

[Indigo]

I'm sorry if I didn't read all the responses, so some of what I say might have been said before.

People believe in God and Satan to explain good and evil. Good and evil are abstract thoughts, and many people struggle with abstract thoughts. When something is perceived as evil, then there must be an intent, and for there to be an intent, there must be a being with said intent. That's the most common path for religious people.

As for her behavior, yes is it very disturbing. I would seek council from trusted friends and family, people who know you are an atheist. It would be damaging for yourself to cut your family out of your life because of their beliefs, but sometimes they may do that to you for not following what they believe to be the truth. Understanding that family and friends will always have differing opinions and beliefs is the cornerstone for good society. I, for one, believe that it is entirely possible that alien life exists somewhere in the universe, but many people do not share that belief. Others believe that the alien life is intelligent and has come to earth, and while I don't share that belief, I also don't consider them unusual for having that type of belief. Perception is a powerful tool for humans, but it can easily be deceived.

What should you do though, is a tough question. Every situation is different, and handling this with a blanket statement is not something I see as beneficial to you. It is fine if you try to convince your family that you are not a satanist, but if they won't have that as an explanation, then ask them why they think you are a satanist. Ask questions, even if you think they've been answered. The more you show interest in her beliefs, the more the discussion can come naturally. Don't ever say that someone is wrong in their beliefs. A belief in a deity isn't wrong until it's proven to be wrong, just as a belief in a deity is right until it is proven right. She has a stance on an unanswered question, and you do not agree with that stance. This means you can find common ground. One thing to remember, as an atheist, is that you're not on an opposite footing of theists, you just haven't jumped on either side of the fence. You still stand on the fence, asking from proof from those on both sides. There is no reason to doubt that one is right, but assuming them to be right is where the breakdown is.

As long as she isn't violent, then that means she has her faculties. Talk to her with respect that she disagrees with your stance, and even misunderstands it. You will need to tread carefully though, she will see you as a liar, if she sees you as a satanist from a religious perspective. One thing to try is simply telling her, that you're sorry you don't share her beliefs. This is not taking the blame for anything, I'm sorry I don't share the beliefs of everyone on earth, because if everyone thought like I did, I'd never be told I was wrong or be called derogatory names. However, this puts you on equal footing. Remember, when trying to plead your case, attacking the other person (even if it's only an attack from their perspective) will not work. Your best bet is to find the common ground. When my mother found out I was an atheist, she and I didn't talk for years.

Then one day, when we finally bridged the gap and spoke distantly, she and I sat on a sofa. We didn't talk for a long time, and she finally asked me, "How could you turn your back on god?". This was a difficult question for me. I knew it was a baiting question, she wanted me to confess some reason I changed to being an atheist, then she could "fix" me. I simply looked at her, and replied, "I love you mom, but our beliefs aren't the same. Where you see me turning my back on God, I see myself not believing there is a God for me to turn my back toward. If in the future, I find God, as I will continue seeking him in my own way, then I will have to answer for my choices. I have my answer though, for if that day comes. If I find God, I will simply tell him this, I made my choice based on the information presented to me. I did not see you in the evidence, and it would be dishonest for me to pray and act as if you exist when my brain did not comprehend you as real." My mother nodded and said, "I'm disappointed in you, but I'll pray that you find him." We never spoke seriously about it again. We got very close to each other after that, and while religion did come up in conversation, it was always light topic. She would reference a bible verse, and I would either agree or disagree if it applied. I never called her wrong, and she never claimed I was right. Then when she was on her death bed, she said to me, "I'll tell God that you need more help." My last words to my mother were, "Tell him, he knows what kind of evidence I need, please tell him to bring it to me. I love you."

Sorry if this story is a bit personal, but it stands to show that once you find equal footing, even someone who is a missionary, a head member of a major church, and devout Christian, can still look at an atheist with respect. And someone who has no reason to believe those things are real, can return that respect. You don't have to respect god, the church, or the bible, but you do have to respect your fellow humans, especially your family. Respect that she has strong conviction, and be willing to ask about it. Be willing to let her tell you about her conviction, and be receptive to her. Show her with actions, that it isn't a lack of education on the matter, and let her know that you'd be receptive to it more, if there was more that could be provided. What more could a mother ask for than a son/daughter who will listen to them? Once you have established that connection, understand you may be put in situations where you are taught about the bible. It is her charge to teach, that is how the bible instructs the followers to be. They are told to go out and teach, so be ready to learn, it's healthy for you to learn about religions, there is no harm in it at all. Just remember, it's not the religion you need to love, it's your family.

But at the end of the day, many atheists who have been in similar situations agree, sometimes honesty causes pain. If you are in a situation where you must live with her, weigh your options carefully. You don't always have the option to leave, but you do have the option of improving your stay. I know of Priests in the catholic church who teach Catholicism in churches, but are atheists. They do this because they do not want to lose their family. This is an extreme course of action, but while living WITH the family member, it might not be bad to tell them what they need to hear. I know this is controversial, but understand this. If being honest might put your life or health at risk, your honor as a truthful person is second seat. Health and well-being should always be a priority, and if honesty will diminish health or well-being, there is no dishonor in lying for sake of safety and comfort. If that becomes the case, find trusted friends you can talk to, so you don't have to bottle your feelings. Be willing to seek family outside of your traditionally family, people you can rely on to talk to about the things you can't discuss with your parents. When you move out of the home, you can drop the act entirely, but remember, you may also lose your family if they see you as a threat to their belief. Every situation is different, you have to just do what it takes to be safe.