Philosophical Vegan Forum

Hi, my name's Eva! I'll tell you a bit about myself because that seems like what I should do here The things I will tell you are relevant to the reason I joined this forum.

- I have a very very religious background
- I'm currently a senior at a private Christian school that I've been going to since the second grade
- This school is tied to one of the largest mega-churchs in America, which most of my friends go to
- My school prides themselves on teaching every class from a Biblical perspective, and this actually really happens. So I've been being indoctrinated for pretty much my whole life (thank god for the Internet )
- My parents are religious but not to the extent that everyone else around me is (aka they don't shove it down my throat and I'm grateful for that)
- My ex-boyfriend broke up with me because I didn't have enough faith in god to deal with my problems. He also said he couldn't be "yolked to an unbeliever" (kinda glad I got out of that one?)
- My best friend's father is a pastor and director of a very large organization of Baptists
- I began doubting my faith in my sophomore year but didn't feel comfortable calling myself an atheist until a little later in my junior year
- I'm vegetarian but eating as vegan as is possible in my house- my family isn't very accepting of my decision to not eat meat (although my dad's getting better, he bought me a veggie burger the other day when the rest of my family were having burgers for dinner )

I was having trouble thinking up a username so I just decided to use part of a line from a song (In The Aeroplane Over The Sea by Neutral Milk Hotel) that I found a little haunting-
"Can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all"
I guess you could say I'm a bit of an existentialist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In my free time I love reading (non-fiction and poetry mostly but find me a good fiction and I will eat it up), watching spoken word and documentaries, listening to music, and making all sorts of art.

Did I just overshare? Yeah... probably. Will I regret posting this?... Maybe. Am I writing this instead of the overdue Apologetics paper I'm supposed to be writing?...... Yeah. I'm just excited to have found a little community where I can actually be open about things. I'm hoping this forum will offer me some relief from the anxiety I feel from putting on a uniform everyday and representing things I so deeply disagree with. I want to learn from you all. And over time I might possibly humor you all in some of the anecdotes that will come along with going to a private Christian school every day.

Have a great day, I'm looking forward to meeting you all!

I apologize for my long winded introduction

Also, I seem to have accidentally listed my diet as vegan and I can't find anywhere to change that in user control panel... any help?

Welcome! That was a great intro, thanks for sharing. I'm glad you found us.

You're vegan at heart, so that's fair.
Not everybody under their parents roofs can be 100%, veganism isn't about 100% though, it's just about avoiding harm as much as possible and practical. It sounds like you're doing that.

I think being vegan is the most god-satisfying thing one can do. Showing love and compassion by having empathy and providing mercy for all of god's creations I think is one way ticket to heaven.

AnythingAtAll wrote:Hi, my name's Eva! I'll tell you a bit about myself because that seems like what I should do here The things I will tell you are relevant to the reason I joined this forum.

Hello Eva, welcome to the forum!

AnythingAtAll wrote:- I have a very very religious background.
- I'm currently a senior at a private Christian school that I've been going to since the second grade.
- This school is tied to one of the largest mega-churchs in America, which most of my friends go to.
- My school prides themselves on teaching every class from a Biblical perspective, and this actually really happens. So I've been being indoctrinated for pretty much my whole life (thank god for the Internet ).

Wow that sounds frightening! Are you in a very religious region of the U.S.A. (perhaps the bible belt), or some other country? Fascinating too. I've often wondered what it would have been like to have been raised in such a manner. I was raised in a secular household in the Bay Area. My parents are atheists and are generally not fond of religion. Most of my knowledge about religion is from hearsay and personal research, but not first-hand experience.

AnythingAtAll wrote:My ex-boyfriend broke up with me because I didn't have enough faith in god to deal with my problems. He also said he couldn't be "yolked to an unbeliever" (kinda glad I got out of that one?)

Yikes! Has he ever questioned his own faith, or questioned the very notion that "faith" (belief without evidence) is rational? Does he believe that "atheists" are people who hate God (which is of course logically impossible)? Or that people cannot be moral without worshiping the God of the bible?

Anyways I hope that someday you find a rational, open-minded, and compassionate vegan man who appreciates you.

AnythingAtAll wrote:I'm vegetarian but eating as vegan as is possible in my house- my family isn't very accepting of my decision to not eat meat (although my dad's getting better, he bought me a veggie burger the other day when the rest of my family were having burgers for dinner )

Yeah, family can be a pain. Usually at first, but often they get better when you demonstrate that a vegan diet can be satisfying and nutritionally adequate. Maybe you can slowly introduce them to more and more psuedodairy foods. Do you have access to Trader Joe's where you live? It's a common grocery-store chain here in California. If so, TJ's Soy-Creamy is the most delicious and reasonably priced vegan ice-cream that I've ever come across. Many supermarkets have vegan yogurts as well, like the "Silk" brand.

AnythingAtAll wrote:Did I just overshare? Yeah... probably. Will I regret posting this?... Maybe. Am I writing this instead of the overdue Apologetics paper I'm supposed to be writing?...... Yeah.

What's an "Apologetics" paper? Do you have to write something defending religion? Does your school actively promote psuedoscience and anti-science? Like, insisting that the way that the bible describes creation of the universe, Earth, and life is literally true; and that evolution is false?

AnythingAtAll wrote:I'm just excited to have found a little community where I can actually be open about things. I'm hoping this forum will offer me some relief from the anxiety I feel from putting on a uniform everyday and representing things I so deeply disagree with.

Sorry to hear that. I hope that we can provide that kind of community.

AnythingAtAll wrote:I want to learn from you all. And over time I might possibly humor you all in some of the anecdotes that will come along with going to a private Christian school every day.

That would be fascinating. Look forward to learning from you too.

ThisUsernameSucks wrote:Showing love and compassion by having empathy and providing mercy...

I agree that doing this for all sentient animals is the best moral way to live.

ThisUsernameSucks wrote:...I think is one way ticket to heaven.

While I would like to believe that there is in fact some kind of "heaven", and would like to go there if it's real, this should of course not be our motivation for the respect that we show to animals. They deserve our respect and kindness regardless of whether or not we get any kind of reward for it.

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:Are you in a very religious region of the U.S.A. (perhaps the bible belt), or some other country? Fascinating too. I've often wondered what it would have been like to have been raised in such a manner. I was raised in a secular household in the Bay Area. My parents are atheists and are generally not fond of religion. Most of my knowledge about religion is from hearsay and personal research, but not first-hand experience.

Yup, bible belt. It's a wonderful place. I'm slightly grateful for being raised here though because it lets me know the type of person I never want to become and has forced me to educate myself on a lot of topics that I might not have really thought about otherwise. It's ironic that being in an environment that teaches me not to question anything has actually had the opposite effect. So jokes on them haha

Did your parents talk to you about religion? And if they did, how did they talk about it? I just don't know many people raised like that so it's a little foreign and interesting to me.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:Yikes! Has he ever questioned his own faith, or questioned the very notion that "faith" (belief without evidence) is rational? Does he believe that "atheists" are people who hate God (which is of course logically impossible)? Or that people cannot be moral without worshiping the God of the bible?

Yes he has, it's strange actually. He told me he had gone through a "phase" like mine. I know people who knew him before me and they told me that he considered himself an atheist in the past. He wouldn't really talk about it with me though.
He's in my apologetics class (which I'll talk about further down) and we've addressed each of those questions. That's the one good thing going for my school, they at least try to come up with logical explanations for belief. He understands that atheists aren't people who hate God but I'm not sure what he currently thinks about morality.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:Anyways I hope that someday you find a rational, open-minded, and compassionate vegan man who appreciates you.

Thank you!

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:Maybe you can slowly introduce them to more and more psuedodairy foods. Do you have access to Trader Joe's where you live? It's a common grocery-store chain here in California. If so, TJ's Soy-Creamy is the most delicious and reasonably priced vegan ice-cream that I've ever come across. Many supermarkets have vegan yogurts as well, like the "Silk" brand.

I'm working on it! Yes, we have Trader Joe's, I go there sometimes. I'll have to check that out! Although, ice cream is the one thing we have plenty of non-dairy options for in my house since my dad and brother are lactose intolerant. Yet they still drink milk and eat plenty of cheese.
I actually didn't know vegan yogurt was a thing, I'll definitely be looking into that. Thanks.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:What's an "Apologetics" paper? Do you have to write something defending religion? Does your school actively promote psuedoscience and anti-science? Like, insisting that the way that the bible describes creation of the universe, Earth, and life is literally true; and that evolution is false?

Christian apologetics is defined in the dictionary as "a branch of theology devoted to the defense of the divine origin and authority of Christianity." In our class, my teacher described what we were to do with apologetics using part of a bible verse- 1 Peter 3:15 "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."
So yes, I do have to write something defending religion. To be fair, some of the paper prompts leave room for the writer to disagree. The prompt for the paper I'm currently writing is "Should we have good confidence the New Testament is a historically reliable book?" (the answer is meant to be yes). And the answer for your other questions is also yes. Last year the school's physics and biology teacher - let me repeat that again - the school's PHYSICS and BIOLOGY teacher... came into our bible classes to give us all the reasons why she believes that the earth was created 6000 years ago. I wish I still had the handout she gave us so I could show you.
I could go on and on about times when my school has been anti-science. No wonder it's my worst subject haha

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:Sorry to hear that. I hope that we can provide that kind of community.

Thanks, I hope so. Also thanks for responding to me!

AnythingAtAll wrote:Also thanks for responding to me!

So I read your response just now but it's almost 1 A.M. now so I'll respond more later...

AnythingAtAll wrote:Did your parents talk to you about religion? And if they did, how did they talk about it? I just don't know many people raised like that so it's a little foreign and interesting to me.

Throughout my childhood, I sometimes spoke with my parents about God(s), and supernatural and religious concepts. It wasn't something they we spoke about very often. I was never taught to believe in a god, but also never taught to believe in God(s) certainly not existing, so I grew up in the default position of disbelief.

I remember that I often asked my parents about what would happen to my consciousness after I die. They admitted that they don't know (they don't know anyone who has died and lived to tell the tale), but they described various concepts like "heaven/hell", being a ghost, reincarnation, etc. It was fascinating to think/talk about but I never firmly decided on one of these as the truth because I had no way of knowing (and my parents admitted they didn't know either). Same thing with God(s). I decided that the most honest thing to do is admit to myself that I don't know if God(s) is/are real.

My parents don't especially dislike religions in general, but my mom has explained to me that she cannot have faith (belief without evidence) in something that is stated as truth (without being substantiated). I'm the same way. What my dad dislikes most about religion is that it has flaws which let people use it to excuse bigotry & violence, and that religious extremists unquestioningly follow teachings that they can use as an excuse to commit violence and force their dogma upon others.

I feel that my parents (having been the ones who raised me) have of course influenced my style of morality. As a child, my parents emphasized how important it is to understand and acknowledge the interests and wishes of other human beings. They insisted that I must be able think from other people's perspectives to do right by them. They have never described morality as a matter of "doing what God wants", and I've never thought of it that way either.

Ironically, my parents were initially disapproving of my choice to go vegan, but they were partly responsible for my inclination to do it. After educating myself about the horrifying reality of animal agriculture, I realized that we humans are doing a hell of a lot of things to animals that they do not want done upon them. I thought about the morality they instilled into me as a child, and realized that if I think from the animals' perspectives that I could not justify supporting these industries who hurt and kill them.

AnythingAtAll wrote:So yes, I do have to write something defending religion. To be fair, some of the paper prompts leave room for the writer to disagree. The prompt for the paper I'm currently writing is "Should we have good confidence the New Testament is a historically reliable book?" (the answer is meant to be yes).

It sounds like this school is promoting confirmation bias.

AnythingAtAll wrote:Last year the school's physics and biology teacher - let me repeat that again - the school's PHYSICS and BIOLOGY teacher... came into our bible classes to give us all the reasons why she believes that the earth was created 6000 years ago. I wish I still had the handout she gave us so I could show you.
I could go on and on about times when my school has been anti-science. No wonder it's my worst subject haha

That's rather frightening. I recently graduated UCSC as a geology major so I'm well aware of how ridiculously anti-scientific the concept of a 6000-year-old-Earth is.

Hi Eva, welcome to the forum, and sharing such a great personal story.