Martial arts

[Unknownfromheaven]

Due to a recent discussion with a peer, it encouraged me to open a new thread, so here it goes.

Martial arts - advantages and disadvantages

Personally if you ask me, i believe that all people should practice martial arts. It can suit any age and any person, and it can increase self -esteem, too.

I say this because what I understand through martial arts its all about training, discipline, training concepts and principles, philosophy, etc. The true problem yet arises when the student does not pay attention to his teacher however, or it has other intentions or purpose.
For instance there are some who learn quick martial arts and then they bully others who are without defence. So i think those in fact learned nothing.

While some practitioners may become well balanced people and worthy of great respect, others use art in order to appear tough or to terrorize the weak, wanting to be feared rather than respected. They unfortunately do not realize there is a difference between fear and respect. Here are some of the styles that they to contain such students (I do not imply that all are the same, but these are the cases I had met): - Taekwondo, Muay thai, Capoeira, Wushu, Ninjitsu, Box, etc.

So again, even if i give some examples, I'm definitely not saying that all practitioners of these styles are like this but I have encountered cases of these styles, while with other styles i had not even seen such a case.

I once witnessed an incident between some gypsies, they were a man, a woman and a child, those two were arguing and the woman raised her voice and did hit the guy in his arm, only to watch how a mysterious guy intervined and hit the woman, it was not his business and the woman received many kicks in her face from this guy, using many feet techniques, this guy did not miss a single blow and the women was instantly on the floor. Of course i stoped him and after this issue the police was involved, due to eye witnesses, i did not had a problem since i minded my own business when these gypsies argued.

Obviously this guy was a taekwondo practicioner, I immediately recognized the style and the fact that it hit a woman who was smaller than him by height and weight, I then opened my eyes, and realised really, that practitioners do varies greatly among them, as a friend said to me: "Here you have it friend, martial arts.", and i felt bad about this wrong opinion..if there are scum people in the world that does not mean that humanity is scum as a whole.
Even if I explained, he had maintained his view, he knew that i was into martial arts and he was also a christian and of course he was against my concepts.

Now you must understand that I have nothing with styles above, I like them, but if you like martial arts and want to learn, you need to think about exactly how to use the arts, how to use your power and with what purpose.
It's the same thing with those who go to a gym only to get ”bigger” and then walk down the streets as if they are such ”gods” among insects type, these are just aberrations / illusions.
If someone goes to a gym, it is normal that it makes for a healthy body due to existing benefits for him, not to be a social monster.
This can apply even in many areas, so i think one must meditate about his main purpose of what he wants from life, and what it can do in order to help others.

Thats all for now, i expect some feed and views. So i am asking . What is your view about martial arts ? Are they good or not and why ?

I wish you all well and good health!

[brimstoneSalad]

I think martial arts can be great for fitness, since it's also seen as practical (at least in some respect), and can be more entertaining/game-like, which can encourage good participation (probably better than going to a gym and doing boring reps).

Basic self defense can be good for people to learn, but it could also inspire over-confidence, and cause people to fight back in dangerous situations where the better choice is to run. So, there is some debate about that.

In terms of the people who use it to bully others: I think they would be bullies either way. Since bullies will still usually pick on those weaker than they are (like the example of the man kicking the smaller woman), chances are martial arts neither facilitates this bullying, nor likely increases the frequency -- in the example you gave, as in most cases, he was probably already predisposed to bully and would have likely done it with or without the martial arts.
From what I have heard in terms of at-risk-youth learning martial arts, it teaches them focus, discipline, and may actually reduce their tendency to get into trouble based on the codes of honor and good sportsmanship associated with the teaching.

However, I haven't seen any good studies on this. I would be really excited to see some, so far all I have are anecdotes.

[Unknownfromheaven]

bullies will still usually pick on those weaker than they are...

There is this tendency as a follow up from frustration maybe, most are cowards and are even weak inside yet they tend to exagerate with intimidation, as most would rely on gangs or other things if they really get into trouble.

I know for a fact that Jackie Chan was a bully in his youth and of course that changed. I think those who would input more time into the sport as in the philosophy behind it, can redeem themselves.

Thank you.

“Simplicity, patience, compassion.
These three are your greatest treasures.
Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being.
Patient with both friends and enemies,
you accord with the way things are.
Compassionate toward yourself,
you reconcile all beings in the world.”

― Laozi, Tao Te Ching

[Jebus]

I don't think martial arts creates bullies. However, I know from personal experience that most who are trained in martial arts secretly hope that their skills will be put to the test in a real life situation. Like Brimstonesalad hinted, they may therefore use their fists in a situation that still has a chance to be neutralized without violence.

As a sport, I can think of no other that incorporates so many different athletic skills. Hence, if I ever adopt a kid martial arts is the first thing I would teach him/her.

The primary reason people learn martial arts is to learn how to fight. Hence I am surprised that so many of the old, inefficient styles, like aikido, shotokan, and taekwondo are still around. We've learned more about martial arts in the last 20 years than in the previous 2000 years but the general public has been slow to catch on. I also find it surprising that boxing is still the most popular spectator event among the martial arts. I expect this to change over the next few decades.

[Unknownfromheaven]

I don't think martial arts creates bullies. However, I know from personal experience that most who are trained in martial arts secretly hope that their skills will be put to the test in a real life situation. Like Brimstonesalad hinted, they may therefore use their fists in a situation that still has a chance to be neutralized without violence.

As a sport, I can think of no other that incorporates so many different athletic skills. Hence, if I ever adopt a kid martial arts is the first thing I would teach him/her.

The primary reason people learn martial arts is to learn how to fight. Hence I am surprised that so many of the old, inefficient styles, like aikido, shotokan, and taekwondo are still around. We've learned more about martial arts in the last 20 years than in the previous 2000 years but the general public has been slow to catch on. I also find it surprising that boxing is still the most popular spectator event among the martial arts. I expect this to change over the next few decades.

Interesting, yet most would agree that when it comes to skill or mastery, its the individual who matters, not the style itself...if some taekwondo would be into a fight in the street against non-trained thugs, it would take them out easy...check Bren Foster..or Matt Mullins...there are many tkd fighters out there and martial arts do matter.

It can make a difference.

However i noticed something in those who trained for a good bunch of years that they preffer not to fight, only on situations where there is no choice. That thingy about wanting to fight or test something is in near first years maybe since they are curious if they are able to apply what they learned...and in many cases the reality is where the theory gets a bloody nose..

Some styles may be under superior skills like ju-jitsu or ninjitsu but are still there because again, these are fun, they put emphasis on philosophy, motion and training, who ever is doing this, is of course having fun.

Thank you:)

[Jebus]

Interesting, yet most would agree that when it comes to skill or mastery, its the individual who matters, not the style itself...if some taekwondo would be into a fight in the street against non-trained thugs, it would take them out easy...check Bren Foster..or Matt Mullins...there are many tkd fighters out there and martial arts do matter.

It certainly works against unskilled fighters. People with no training often don't even react when someone throws a punch at them. However, if one is going to learn a style of martial arts, why not learn the most efficient one? The fighters you mentioned seems to be skilled in their disciplines but I have never seen them in a mixed martial arts competition. In the early days of the UFC there were plenty of highly skilled karate fighters and they always got their asses kicked.

i noticed something in those who trained for a good bunch of years that they preffer not to fight, only on situations where there is no choice.

There are a lot of stories of seasoned UFC fighters getting into bar fights. However, this could be due to drunk idiots wanting to test their skills against martial arts celebrities.

Some styles may be under superior skills like ju-jitsu or ninjitsu but are still there because again, these are fun, they put emphasis on philosophy, motion and training, who ever is doing this, is of course having fun.

[/quote]

I don't see why certain traditional styles should be more fun or put more emphasis on philosophy, motion, and training. I think people are still paying money for inefficient styles because they want to be able to tell their friends they have a black belt, or because they are simply too stupid to realize that their style is inefficient.

Martial arts is one of my favourite topics of discussion. If there are more martial arts fans in this community I would like to start a thread where we can post our favourite martial arts clips.

[Unknownfromheaven]

It certainly works against unskilled fighters. People with no training often don't even react when someone throws a punch at them. However, if one is going to learn a style of martial arts, why not learn the most efficient one? The fighters you mentioned seems to be skilled in their disciplines but I have never seen them in a mixed martial arts competition. In the early days of the UFC there were plenty of highly skilled karate fighters and they always got their asses kicked.

Yes, Bruce Lee said this, to incorporate into jkd principles what it workes, not fancy footwork, even so i tend to agree and disagree at the same time when he put out that those are not martial arts.
Because they do not need to prove something maybe...UFC fighters want that, but thats because they do not have something else, thats their point and want to prove it. others do not feel or do not need to point out something. As to those who were trained certain martial arts style and lost, that means they didn`t trained enough for that match. Sometimes they can be arrogant and underestimate others, thats a big mistake.

I don't see why certain traditional styles should be more fun or put more emphasis on philosophy, motion, and training. I think people are still paying money for inefficient styles because they want to be able to tell their friends they have a black belt, or because they are simply too stupid to realize that their style is inefficient.

Martial arts are about art, not only combat, it also implies how i said before a philosophy, a way of life...for instance before i got into ninjitsu and jeet kune do, i practied for a lot of time kung fu because i loved and still got my ass kicked back in the day, of course i was a child, the the whole point was that i realised that combat is a serious issue and that i should stop to play around, and the kung fu i make after that was just for choreography and entertainment only. So either you are a really good master in kung fu, or either you suck...its a really, really hard style and to find in that way, but i know for sure that there are some master who can really fight in that way...there is a style called iron shirt, basically they are immune to hard blows on the neck, chest, and groins...those are really difficult to beat in a real fight.

There are two main philosophies in martial arts,, the japanese or what i encountered during my ninjitsu training (nimpo) and the chinese philosophy which i now follow...those are very distinct when it comes to combat.

Martial arts is one of my favourite topics of discussion. If there are more martial arts fans in this community I would like to start a thread where we can post our favourite martial arts clips.

Thats great, and hope to hear from you more about this.

I wish you well and good health.

[Unknownfromheaven]

I would want to point on another thing...the issue of this topic was reffered about if these are good enough for someone to practice.

After all any martial arts are better than nothing, in the majority of the cases real issues do not contain ufc fighters

[Dream Sphere]

Hey, thanks for creating this thread, it's spawned some good discussion so far.

In regards to some things which I was thinking of commenting on, I feel like now it would be a little redundant, so I'll just quickly go over that; I think that in general the skills that a person may learn in martial arts could be used either for good, something neutral/benign, or something bad, and that that is largely up to the individual practitioner. Although I do agree with you Unknownfromheaven that it is important for the masters/teachers to stress those parts of the philosophy involving discipline and such, especially if they're teaching it to young kids (who are more impressionable and less developed) in an after school program like the program I was in for taekwondo. But, that still may not necessarily make everyone treat it responsibly. Personally; I never treated what I had learned there as anything more than a fun exercise/activity (so, I kept what I had learned there compartmentalized to be practiced just within the training center,) with some other interesting aspects like learning Korean words and some of the philosophy around it, although they only occasionally explained in greater detail of the philosophy around it, and at that age of eight to eleven or so, I had found some of the info to be a little overwhelming at times.

I also agree with how martial arts training could cause some overconfidence in a person where they'll be like "don't worry I'll take care of this..." and end up with much worse results and harm being done in the resulting conflict, than if they had fled or even submitted (if it appeared as reasonable to submit, depending on the situation.)

Interesting, yet most would agree that when it comes to skill or mastery, its the individual who matters, not the style itself...if some taekwondo would be into a fight in the street against non-trained thugs, it would take them out easy...check Bren Foster..or Matt Mullins...there are many tkd fighters out there and martial arts do matter.

It certainly works against unskilled fighters. People with no training often don't even react when someone throws a punch at them. However, if one is going to learn a style of martial arts, why not learn the most efficient one? The fighters you mentioned seems to be skilled in their disciplines but I have never seen them in a mixed martial arts competition. In the early days of the UFC there were plenty of highly skilled karate fighters and they always got their asses kicked.

I'll edit in the appropriate quote soon, but for now in question to Jebus. Which styles of martial arts do you think are the best? Is there a single best (or rather clearly superior to other styles) one, or are there a few or handful of which are best to have a diversified knowledge of, as you seem to have said in regards to "mixed martial arts"? I'm thinking that I may be interested in practicing one or more martial arts again and am curious of where to start, as this would kinda be a new beginning for me as my knowledge and skill in Taekwondo has crumbled away over time, but I'm in better physical shape than I was a year ago, so I thought that something like this may make getting some more physical activity interesting rather than the bland, basic, habituated exercise I've been going with for the past while.

I'm also somewhat curious of the philosophies of martial arts and where they differ majorly, or if many of them largely share the same principles? For if anyone is interested in sharing their knowledge on that, although I'll also be looking into that on my own time, so don't worry if you think it would be more effort explaining here than it may be worth.

[Unknownfromheaven]

I also agree with how martial arts training could cause some overconfidence in a person where they'll be like "don't worry I'll take care of this..." and end up with much worse results and harm being done in the resulting conflict, than if they had fled or even submitted

It does, one time i was at work and left really late, i got out at about 24:00 PM and a friend was expecting me at that time to hang out,, we had went to get some food and on the way on our road a homeless man came to me and asked for some food and i gave some of what i had.

And after i did this..and walked away i could hear him scream behind my back, he was attacked by some drug addicts or something..they were in a very bad condition and they were very angry with him as they tried to rip of his food and water...and of course i was so stupid to engage with ”a fight” and unfortunetly i hit one of them so bad that it fell and he didn t rise up...blood was spreading on the floor and i got so scared, but also that gang that ran away after that....what shocked me is that at that point i was thinking that i may have killed him...instead of just sharing some food...of course he managed to get up and walk....and even to this day i feel so sorry that i approached in a non-peacefull way..since i could end that conflict since i had food, and still i had plenty...from that time i changed myself a lot and seek to use non-violent ways if there are such issues.

And i did not had problems ever since...but if there is something i do not stand..is that here people watch and do nothing if they see violence, as such if it is something normal in a society...i really hate that.

indifference makes people a part from the problem i guess.

Thank you Dream Sphere for encouraging me to make this thread, i am thankfull that i did not disturbed, yet encourage as well conversation and exchange of information.