What to say against people who say that evidence is made up?

[Neptual]

Recently I was in a debate with 3 christian males who at the end point of the argument said "Well the evidence for evolution is made up by scientists. Biology books are just made up there's no real evidence to support them"

No matter how hard I try to explain to them that this is not true they just don't seem to understand.

They also at one point threw in the Ken Ham card "You weren't there".

[TheVeganAtheist]

I think at this point I would stop trying. Nothing, it seems, would shake their faith in their god/jesus/bible beliefs. If you have to dismiss reality to keep your beliefs, then no amount of real evidence is going to convince them to drop their faith.

[cufflink]

They also at one point threw in the Ken Ham card "You weren't there".

Well, you could point out the inanity of that remark by asking them how they know that [fill in some universally accepted fact about the past--like, "George Washington was the first President of the United States"]. They weren't there, were they?

But VA is right. Some people have been so successfully indoctrinated into fundamentalism that no facts are going to shake them from their beliefs. Better walk away and save your efforts for those who show at least some signs of being able to think rationally.

[brimstoneSalad]

Recently I was in a debate with 3 christian males who at the end point of the argument said "Well the evidence for evolution is made up by scientists. Biology books are just made up there's no real evidence to support them"

No matter how hard I try to explain to them that this is not true they just don't seem to understand.

They also at one point threw in the Ken Ham card "You weren't there".

These people are indulging in a conspiracy theory. Exposing that is the way forward.

If they also believe that the Earth is a flat disk, surrounded by an ice wall, guarded by UN forces to keep anybody from seeing or photographing it, then they are being consistently insane. There's nothing you can do.

If they reject that, but accept the conspiracy theory that the world governments, universities, and scientists are engaging in a massive cover up, hiding the evidence of creation in collusion with the devil, and fabricating evolution out of whole cloth to get people to reject god (inventing things like DNA theory- the bible begs to differ- along with fossil evidence, ice core samples, geology, radiometric dating, etc.), then they are being inconsistent.

In order for the time line and evolution to be false, virtually ALL science, even before Darwin, has to have been fabricated. DNA can not exist. Physics is completely wrong at its very foundation. Chemistry is mostly wrong.
Every scientist and government must be run by satanists, pretending to be Christians, Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. (but in fact worshiping the devil- which is the only way they would DO all of this and be able to coordinate like that).

Just uncover a few of the ramifications and requirements for belief in that conspiracy theory.


Make the choice more clear: Reason, or complete insanity. If they want to go down that road, there's nothing you can do to stop them, but you can let them know where it leads.

[Neptual]

Recently I was in a debate with 3 christian males who at the end point of the argument said "Well the evidence for evolution is made up by scientists. Biology books are just made up there's no real evidence to support them"

No matter how hard I try to explain to them that this is not true they just don't seem to understand.

They also at one point threw in the Ken Ham card "You weren't there".

These people are indulging in a conspiracy theory. Exposing that is the way forward.

If they also believe that the Earth is a flat disk, surrounded by an ice wall, guarded by UN forces to keep anybody from seeing or photographing it, then they are being consistently insane. There's nothing you can do.

If they reject that, but accept the conspiracy theory that the world governments, universities, and scientists are engaging in a massive cover up, hiding the evidence of creation in collusion with the devil, and fabricating evolution out of whole cloth to get people to reject god (inventing things like DNA theory- the bible begs to differ- along with fossil evidence, ice core samples, geology, radiometric dating, etc.), then they are being inconsistent.

In order for the time line and evolution to be false, virtually ALL science, even before Darwin, has to have been fabricated. DNA can not exist. Physics is completely wrong at its very foundation. Chemistry is mostly wrong.
Every scientist and government must be run by satanists, pretending to be Christians, Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, etc. (but in fact worshiping the devil- which is the only way they would DO all of this and be able to coordinate like that).

Just uncover a few of the ramifications and requirements for belief in that conspiracy theory.


Make the choice more clear: Reason, or complete insanity. If they want to go down that road, there's nothing you can do to stop them, but you can let them know where it leads.

I'll be seeing them very soon and I will take them to the Natural History Museum (they're friends of a cousin I have) and this time they say that they'll be a bit more open minded. Hopefully they can recognize evidence when they see it instead of hearing it.

[brimstoneSalad]

I'll be seeing them very soon and I will take them to the Natural History Museum (they're friends of a cousin I have) and this time they say that they'll be a bit more open minded. Hopefully they can recognize evidence when they see it instead of hearing it.

That's great. If they came out and said they'll be more open minded (if you didn't make them), that probably means they recognize that they were being closed minded, and that closed mindedness is a bad thing.

It's like the first step to solving a problem: admitting that it's a problem. And they did that, so the rest should go much better.
It sounds like you all but convinced them last time, and it just took a while for it to sink in.

Also, yes; seeing rather than just hearing could make a big difference. Whenever something is illustrated or shown to people, it becomes more real to them.

[Volenta]

What I try to do in this situation is explaining the scientific method and why science—and science alone—is the only valid method of acquiring knowledge. By doing this, they have to come up with arguments why this method is wrong (which they probably can't, otherwise they wouldn't say it's made up), otherwise I'm done with the discussion.

[Taman Shud]

I pretty much agree that you are probably just wasting your time. They've built an entire worldview on some of the shakiest foundations but because of this they take anything you say as a personal attack on them, no matter how you phrase it.

As far as the, "You weren't there." argument, there are so many things that can be said. The most obvious and hypocritical example is they weren't there to observe Jesus, so how can they remain confident in stories that come from one, very biased, book. (The bible.) Special pleading much?

Another is Pluto's orbit. Since Pluto was discovered we have not seen Pluto orbit the sun even once. But, we seem to know how long it does take for Pluto to orbit the sun.

[brimstoneSalad]

which they probably can't, otherwise they wouldn't say it's made up

That's where they resort to conspiracy theories.

Scientists are basically a devil worshiping cult, controlling all of the major world governments, and they fabricate all of the evidence, colluding with each other to pretend to confirm it, to discredit the bible and Christianity. They think the whole world is out to get them, and deceive man kind away from Christianity.

It's an amazingly self-centered notion: they think everything is about them.

Once you've calibrated your bullshit detector to measure the insanity of creationists, almost half of the country, the most bizarre claims about UFO conspiracies barely even register as a blip, and seem quite reasonable by comparison.

[bobo0100]

One of my creationist friends does the same thing, except he rejects all scientific evidence of everything. So he also says it when I point to scientific studies proving that gays and bisexual do exist.

Altho it didn't work I will share the conversation

Creationist: gay guys are only gay because that can't get a into a straight relationship.

Yes he actually said that.

Me: there have been scientific studies concluding that 70% of people are bisexual. (I must admit that I have lost track of the actual study)

Creationist: I don't believe in science.

At this point I thought I would explain it a different way.

Me: premiss one:if a you get aroused by gay porn you are gay, if you get aroused by straight porn you are straight, if you get aroused by both you are bisexual.

Premiss two: if we strapped relievers to your gentles and showed you porn of various varieties than we could find out if you where gay straight or bi.

Premiss three: when this was done 70% of participants trended out to be factually bisexual.

Creationist: (finally catching on at this point) I don't believe in science.

When a jesus freak is saying things along those lines NOTHING will work.