Should there such a term as a non-believing Jew?

[Jebus]

I am copying this from another discussion site. What are your thoughts?

over 51% of American Jews are athiests, as they are taught to think and question. As a group, they are more liberal, progressive than other group. In fact, Israel has the highest percentage of Vegans of any country in the world, and the movement is growing. Israel has banned the testing of cosmeitics on animals, and for woman's rights now requires that models have at least a certain percentage of body fat. The Ultra Orthodox are a fringe group living in the past. The Jewish people are an anchient people that have always valued scholarship and felt it was their duty to be a light onto the world. Please don't take this crazy nut as an indication of all our people. No other group of people in America is mostly composed of athiests.

Doesn't make any sense. If the American Jew is an atheist he is not a Jew in the first place.

Do not mix culture with religion

A jew is a person who believes in the Jewish faith. I know that the word is used to also cover race, ethnicity, and culture but it shouldn't be. Other religious terms are not used this way, so why does this one? An atheist who goes to a Bar Mitzwah a couple of times because his parents are Jewish is not a Jew, neither religiously or culturally. He's just an atheist who wants to make his parents happy.

Absolutely not, we are BOTH a religion and an ancient people. We have been literate for over 4,000 years. There are ultra religious Jews, but they are the exception. A religious conversion is very difficult, Jews discourage conversions, because being a Jew has many responsibilities, the primary one to be a light onto the world. If you read Talmud, it's all about debating what is the meaning and to question. Jewish American's have as a group, been progressive and supported civil right and human causes For example, young Jews at the start of the civil rights movement rode and died with African Americans,. The vast majority vote for progressive candidates, not GOP candidates. Bernie Sanders is very typical of a modern American Jew, as am I appreciating our values, culture, history, but reject the superstition. Scholarship and learning has always been the highest value in our culture, above money. That's why with less than 1% of the population we have over 10% of Nobel prizes, Einstein, Stravinsky, Gershwin, Saulk, Bartok, Marx, Lennin, Trotsky, all examples of Jews that changed the world, and they are all progressives, and generally all athiests. We also gave the west the alphabet. Before 300 BC the Greeks were totally illiterate, but the people from the land called Israel gave them our alphabet.

How would you define yourself as an ancient people? Who is included in this club? If Barack converts to Judaism, will he be considered a Jew? If Bernie becomes a Christian will he be considered a Jew? This American way of categorising Jews is uniquely stupid and needs to end. Let's say you could categorise Jews as one ethnic group (you can't because they have integrated with so many other ethnic groups over thousands of years) even then you should come up with a different term to avoid confusion between religion and ethnicity.

Very simple. Just like a person can move to the US and become an American, people can join Judaism, but Judaism does not seek converts. There still are two different concepts, Jews as a people, and Judaosm as a religion. No, Sanders will always be Jewish, it is whom he is and has absolutely nothing to do with supernatural beliefs. Like most American Jews, I'm sure he's an athiest.

I understand that you have become familiar with this concept as almost everyone around you have the same (in my opinion, bad) habit. Please let me explain the shortcomings of your concept of a Jewish (non religious) people: There is strong archaeological evidence that there was once a Jewish nation. However, since then many converted to Christianity and other religions and those who remained Jewish spread to different parts of the world where they intermarried with other races and ethnicities. Today there are no direct descendants left from the original Israelites. The only glue that have kept "Jewish" identification strong is the common religion and the traditions that came with that religion. Remove the religion and there wouldn't be any Jews left. The same thing will happen in the U.S. The habit of identifying oneself as a Jew will certainly not last through more than a couple of non-believing generations. As the label of a Jewish people (unrelated to religion) is inconsistent, nonsensical, and confusing I encourage people to stop using it.

[brimstoneSalad]

YES, and here's why:

People are more tied to their identities, such as being a "Jew", or "Christian" or "Muslim" than the actual beliefs. If we don't support decoupling identity from belief, it's going to be much harder for people to shed these ancient superstitions because they have to change their identities in the process.

Look at Christian Atheism.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

Christian atheism is a philosophical stance in which beliefs in conventional Christian notions of God are absent, strongly doubted or rejected, but the moral teachings of Jesus are followed.

Secular Judaism as a cultural identity, Secular Christian traditions, even Secular Islam: these are positive steps.
Is culture still divisive? It can be, but much less so minus the religious baggage of orthodoxy.

From a more strict semantic standpoint, of course it's nonsense. But maybe it's nonsense we should tacitly endorse.

[PsYcHo]

I was thinking about this question for a while, but I was divided along the lines of "I agree Jebus, because Judaism is a religion," but conversely "It is well known that many Jewish people are not religious, but consider their Judaism to be similar to let's say Italian, but having been born in America."

I do agree with you that on the surface it is a logical fallacy, (You can't call yourself Buddhist if you do not practice Buddhism, right), but, you mentioned how the Jews are a wandering people. Just like people of Italian descent like to describe themselves as Italian, it seems to me that the non-secular Jews are trying to hold on to a group identity, but they have no country of origin. (Israel as we know it being a current development)

From a more strict semantic standpoint, of course it's nonsense. But maybe it's nonsense we should tacitly endorse.

This may not be the most intellectually rational argument against your stance, but it does hold merit. They are more rational than their religious counterparts, but they still want to have a group identity. They are closer to us atheists because they are more rational than their religious brethren, but they wish to have an identity that relates those of a similar lineage.

(Oh, and I have been wanting to use this reference for a while, but it has never came up. SAVE ME JEBUS! )