Philosophical Vegan Forum

Is it zero or non-zero?

The honor and dignity of a famous atheistic Jew rests upon the answer to this question. I won't say his name, but it rhymes with Ham Paris

How do you define Jesus returning? What qualifies?

We have had hundreds or thousands of popular claimants.

brimstoneSalad wrote:How do you define Jesus returning? What qualifies?

We have had hundreds or thousands of popular claimants.

Hmm, I guess in flesh and blood with some kind of undeniable proof that he's the son of God

This came up at some point in a long-ass debate between Sam Harris and Cenk Uygur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVl3BJoEoAU

Sam argued that, based on probability theory, Mormonism is less likely to be true than Christianity, because in Mormonism Jesus is said to return to an American state (forgot which), whereas in mainstream Christianity the location where Jesus wlil return isn't given. Cenk kept denying this and said they were equally untrue, which it would seem he's right about if both probabilities are zero (he never mentioned that part, nor did he argue why they would be zero)

I'm inclined to think Cenk is right, although probably just by accident

knot wrote: Hmm, I guess in flesh and blood with some kind of undeniable proof that he's the son of God

What would that even mean?
Now you have to define "god".

In a quantum sense, the chance of any given real person returning is non-zero. It's larger for a person to return on Earth than in a specific place, although they are both astronomically small.
Particles pop in and out of existence all of the time, and all Jesus is (if you define him physically and informatically based on a historical real person), is a certain arrangement of particles.

If Jesus returns, it's more likely to be due to the existence of hypothetical aliens who have a probe on or around the Earth scanning people before they die, and would be able to replicate him as a massive cosmic troll.
I don't find that plausible, but it's also non-zero with respect to the information we have (just very unlikely, and contingent on the fact of there having been aliens visiting Earth thousands of years ago and having that technology, which is also unlikely). As to their motivations, it would be hard to say if they'd be more likely to troll by making the Mormon prophecy come true for the lolz or just bringing back Jesus in general somewhere in the Middle-East.

According to the Bible, there probably was a Messiah before Jesus, Melchizedek, the priest of God most high. I mean, he's pretty much glossed over in Genesis (since the Bible really mostly deals with Abraham's life and his bloodline). But I don't see any religion based around him, or at least any mainstream one. Maybe since he didn't die for anyone's sins?

Aaaaaaanyway, I don't see any evidence of Jesus eventually returning. Sone people claim to be the second coming of Jesus, and they do have a small following. But until they turn water into wine and cure leprosy, they ain't Ted Nugent.

brimstoneSalad wrote:

knot wrote: Hmm, I guess in flesh and blood with some kind of undeniable proof that he's the son of God

What would that even mean?
Now you have to define "god".

God as defined in the bible. I'm guessing the probability is zero in that case, because the physics/logic doesn't work out.

I don't think it was clear if they just talked about the historical figure.

There's a non-zero chance of a exact replica of a dead person being spontaneously formed by atoms, really? That's kinda cool, even if the chance is absurdly small

knot wrote: God as defined in the bible. I'm guessing the probability is zero in that case, because the physics/logic doesn't work out.

As translated and interpreted by whom?

knot wrote: There's a non-zero chance of a exact replica of a dead person being spontaneously formed by atoms, really? That's kinda cool, even if the chance is absurdly small

Yep. There's a non-zero chance of any combination of material particles spontaneously assembling. It's a mindbogglingly small probability, though.

It's zero if you factor in quantum states and entanglement with other extant particles, but I don't think anybody is or would, since that's irrelevant to what we perceive and interact with as a part of physical reality. Anybody who thinks that's important existentially has probably fallen off the woo woo express.

In regards to the OP, in Mexico and the southern US, people named Jesus leave their homes everyday, with a return rate of almost 100%.

But since you expanded on the question, I digress.

PsYcHo wrote:In regards to the OP, in Mexico and the southern US, people named Jesus leave their homes everyday, with a return rate of almost 100%.

But since you expanded on the question, I digress.

I bet the guy whose name rhymes with Ham Paris must be real pissed to find out this is the case.