Philosophical Vegan Forum

I'm not religious person. Religion, mainly evangelical, has fucked my life one way and another, The scars given to me have been deep, and won't heal any time soon. Yet, I am Agnostic, or to be detailed Agnostic Atheist.. So I say it's a possibility, but not a very likely one as of now. I've debated and argued with plenty of people, been swayed at times only to see i was lied to. Personally I know these people will never get their heads out the clouds and realize the key things in life.

I've told plenty of this idea, that perhaps God gave us the bible to see who was smart enough not to take it word for word. The chosen few are the ones who bother the look things in the eye and critically examine it. Perhaps this God doesn't want sheep, but the shepherds. Most verses, when talking about God's prophets call them a 'Shepherd for the Sheep'. Perhaps this is not meant to mean the prophet showing Gods grace, but rather pulling the wool over their eyes and seeing who is dumb enough to follow a 'chosen man of God'. Test to put it simply, God is testing human kind.

And, we have failed, a lot.

I can't really image a God like the bible puts him, if I had to go with a view of a God I'd chose a Deists view point. Beyond what humans can comprehend, thus making the 'Bible' or any other holy text (Quran, Torah, Old Testament/New Testament, etc...). Heaven isn't full of 'Bible Thumpers' as most people call them, nor is it full of praise and worship to this God. I'd think the people who were the 'Shepherds' are the ones we are in heavy. The people who have challenged things in life for the right reasons. A heaven full of people who hate because a book tells them to, I'd have to say, is not likely. If this God is so loving, why all the hate.

The God I can see if one who just has tried, but doesn't care any more. He made us, tested us, and when we passed the first by eating the fruit, he kept failing afterwards. I can say if I was an all powerful being, I'd hate the meaningless praying for meaningless things all the time, escpecially if the thing I created has the brain power to fix everything themselves. He doesn't interfere, he watches to see who is smart enough, who will do something about the bad things. He made us with a brain, but we don't use it. We chose to limit ourselves because of a book, the thing he didn't want us to do. We failed the 'test'.

So, as I write this and listen to my family say Trump was 'Chosen by God' I can't help but give a sad laugh. After all we have failed, after everything we've done, God has abandon us. We have proven that just because a book tells us we will turn on each other, hate one another, and let people pull the wool over their eyes in his name. He calls us 'Sheep' because that is what we are, people who follow but don't question. So what makes everyone think he is still here for us? Maybe because the reality is just too scary to think of, that maybe he doesn't exist, or maybe he just doesn't care about humans as a whole, neither dose he like his 'followers'.

God has abandon humanity. It's as simple as that.

The most probable scenario is that nothing like a god exists.

But if something "god-like" exists, your description is just as plausible (probably more so) than that of fundamentalists.
That's the trouble with things like "Pascal's wager".

JadeSpeedster17 wrote:perhaps God gave us the bible to see who was smart enough not to take it word for word.

At the same time, God determines who gets the brains. What's the point of testing people if the outcome is predetermined?

Eh, I think if these a possible thing then that's a 'No'.

He made us equal, he made us all the same, but he wanted to see who would limit themselves.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

JadeSpeedster17 wrote:Eh, I think if these a possible thing then that's a 'No'.

He made us equal, he made us all the same, but he wanted to see who would limit themselves.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

If he made us the same and equal, then how could there be people who believe and people who don't? Can limiting oneself by different levels of rationality from person to person be considered equality among those people?

brimstoneSalad wrote:The most probable scenario is that nothing like a god exists.

And this is the area where I like to point out that if we go to a second after the big bang, the probability of us existing at all is almost 0. (Fellow Agnostic atheist here )

In my many hours of pondering, I've considered numerous scenarios in relation to a "higher" being. But then I've also considered a quantum physics theory that all possible scenarios of existence have already occurred, and we are only perceiving them now in a linear fashion because in our current scenario, we are unable to register the fact that we lived our entire lives in an instant.

PsYcHo wrote:

brimstoneSalad wrote:The most probable scenario is that nothing like a god exists.

And this is the area where I like to point out that if we go to a second after the big bang, the probability of us existing at all is almost 0. (Fellow Agnostic atheist here )

In my many hours of pondering, I've considered numerous scenarios in relation to a "higher" being. But then I've also considered a quantum physics theory that all possible scenarios of existence have already occurred, and we are only perceiving them now in a linear fashion because in our current scenario, we are unable to register the fact that we lived our entire lives in an instant.

Why can't it be a parabola?

PsYcHo wrote:But then I've also considered a quantum physics theory that all possible scenarios of existence have already occurred, and we are only perceiving them now in a linear fashion because in our current scenario, we are unable to register the fact that we lived our entire lives in an instant.

There is no "already" occurred when you consider the wave function of reality, which can only be contemplated from a perspective outside itself (outside of time where we can not go and thought can not exist).
Whether an instant or eternity, it doesn't really make a difference, that's just an issue of normalization (and there's nothing to normalize to).

brimstoneSalad wrote: There is no "already" occurred when you consider the wave function of reality, which can only be contemplated from a perspective outside itself (outside of time where we can not go and thought can not exist).

Perhaps that is where the "higher" being(s) reside? (Maybe I just took waaaay to much LSD when I was younger, but perception is fluid....)

(just to be clear, even if such higher beings were to exist, I don't think they would be bothered to write a book, through men, to tell us how to live our lives.

PsYcHo wrote: Perhaps that is where the "higher" being(s) reside? (Maybe I just took waaaay to much LSD when I was younger, but perception is fluid....)

Nothing can live there, there's no time there. Nothing can change or act, there is no cause and effect or thought or anything there.

PsYcHo wrote: (just to be clear, even if such higher beings were to exist, I don't think they would be bothered to write a book, through men, to tell us how to live our lives.

It would be impossible for it to do that, because it can't DO anything. There's no time "there", there isn't really even a "there" there at all.