Philosophical Vegan Forum

So, I ran into this about a week ago it rubbed me kind of the wrong way and I felt like leaving a comment. Well, I got kinda discouraged from commenting but I thought It might be an interesting topic maybe you'll get the same feeling of "are you serious?" That I did. I wouldn't bother watching the video I'm just talking about a small part of what is said but I will provide the video out of etiquette.

So here is the link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK-Id3s ... csVU2kfoww
and I'm only referring to what is said at 4:24 to maybe 4:46. Watch the video if you want I'm just providing it out of sourcing or whatever. Maybe start at 4:04 for context or just skip to my summary. Oh yeah for fans of Naruto Spoiler alert or just don't watch the video.

But really there is no need to watch it here is the summary of what rubbed me the wrong way: A character in this fictional story died and it seems he is going to some sort of after life place. The guy commenting about the story is curious if you are an atheist are you able to.....and this is where I'm getting confused....able to accept or perhaps appreciate that there could be a God or after life in a fictional story.

It just seemed to me a really out of place thing to say. What I'm thinking is: I am an atheist in regards to this reality and the evidence it may or may not have for God or afterlife or whatever. Whether I believe in a God or afterlife in a fictional story depends on the evidence, implications, and tone of that story. Anyone who is an atheist because of the evidence in the real world should have no problem with believing what is supernatural in regards to reality if those things are in a fictional story where they are common place or heavily implied.

And whether we appreciate it or not depends entirely on an idividuals personal taste and how well written that thing is. Maybe he is thinking that since we are atheist things about God are not in our tastes. Thinking about it that way, I do find the concept of an abrahamic God as quite boring but I won't dislike them in all stories they just have to be written in a way that interests me. But that is just me, it all depends on the individual.

It just seems weird to me that someone would think being an atheist might mean they have a problem with suspension of disbelief or appreciation of some parts of fiction simply because they are an atheist. I'm sure there are people like that, but it is just weird of them to bring their atheism in regards to reality to a fictional world where the real world reasons may or may not apply depending on the story.

I don't know, like I said it just rubbed me the wrong way for someone to think that supernatural things in a fictional story might be a concern for someone who is an atheist. Then again not all atheist are the same there are unreasonable atheists. Maybe I was just insulted that he did not make that distinction. Oh well.

Yea, I don't really care. The reason I think most atheists denounce religion is because it's a baseless assertion. Fiction is fictional, imagined, you enter a book expecting to be entertained or moved not educated on how to mix a potion that turns your enemy into a newt. If we had a problem with baseless assertions in fiction we would have a problem with Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek, any superhero movie or comic, Hemingway... anything. Heck I even like some bible stories as allegory, and fully understanding western fiction usually requires understanding of the christian religion. I mean if he wants to say "heaven is real I saw it in Naruto" then we have a problem.

Twizelby wrote: I mean if he wants to say "heaven is real I saw it in Naruto" then we have a problem.

That made me laugh.

Yeah, I agree completely with you. I just thought it was really weird for him to assume that we would have a problem with fiction about supernatural things. It seemed so random and out of place. Hell, I did not even know he was religious. I'm so antisocial and the concept of God is so baseless to me that I get hella surprised when people express sincerity about these beliefs when I'm not expecting it. I need to get out more.

Theists tend to have a problem with fiction in which it is canonically recognized that there is no god, or in which their god exists but it less than all powerful and benevolent (see His Dark Materials, and the controversy that surrounded The Golden Compass).

Christians in particular like to protest over these things.

On the other side, there are vocal Atheists like Penn Jillette who seem to hate "escapist" fantasy fiction in general, ostensibly because it involves any kind of real magic. Except "Atlas Shrugged", apparently.

Based on the OP's description of what the video uploader was saying, it sounds like the uploader is one of those theists who upon hearing an atheist's rejection of the belief in a God, says or thinks something along the lines of "why do you hate God, what happened to you that made you have distaste for him?" It almost seems as if the theist can't believe anyone could actually disbelieve in god, so they equate the atheist saying "I have no reason to believe God exists" to a hatred for all things theistic, which could lead the theist to believe that the atheist would have problems with anything to do with any religion, when that's not necessarily true. The uploader really is kinda just strawmanning atheists as people who "irrationally" hate all things religious/theistic, despite its context.

I, as an atheist, have no problem with religion/theism in fiction if it actually benefits the story. The supernatural is quite an interesting subject actually, so I think fiction/stories are perfect places for it. I just disagree with its application in the real world as doctrines and things that real people feel the need to follow and believe in, with unsubstantiated claims being some of the main motivators for real people believing in such doctrines, they don't have sufficient evidence, they have zero proof, only faith, and its use in manipulating other real people in the real world truly bothers me.

Absolutely not. Fiction is fiction. The problem comes when people try to take works of fiction as reality.

Not at all, after all it's fiction. I have a few stories I'm writing that uses religion and I'll even play religious characters in rpgs.

Fiction has its own rules, so its usually easy to stomach supernatural elements.
However, off the top of my head there are two ways of handling religion/superstition in a way that I don't like:
- when the religion used is a real one (especially bad if the work is meant to be realistic and/or serious)
- when the characters are blatantly superstitious, or reverent to presumedly nonexistent entities (e g. Wearing good luck charms, praying "out of respect" or as a social activity) These things seem oddly common in Japanese media.

That said, however, one of my favorite manga of all time is Osamu Tezuka's Buddha, which is ironic since it has a lot of religious themes, as you would expect for a book about a religious figure.

I find the realm of fiction to be very suitable for anything supernatural. It is in fiction where people can write and share ideas about the supernatural. People are free to let their imagination run wild, get creative, and even work out entirely new religions, each with a whole pantheon of deities and a system of worship.

It's only becoming a problem when supernatural fiction crosses over to reality. Take Scientology for example. Its inventor Hubbard started out as a science fiction writer. He didn't earn enough money with writing just fiction, and so he made up a new religion that would make him rich, taking advantage of other people's gullibility. Unfortunately, he succeeded.