Philosophical Vegan Forum

I'm just speculating and looking for more perspectives on this. Given what has already happened this year, what do you think will be next?

Inaction/business as usual after a while of strong rhetoric? More terror? Will the idea of multiculturalism be abandoned? Will the situation be abused by the governments to impose laws that invade privacy? Will Islam get a free pass?

Interesting question. Unfortunately, I think terrorist attacks will become more and more common. Eventually, the "moderate" European muslims will have to start dealing with the issue of Islamic terrorism. Perhaps a couple of generations from now the divide between European muslims and North African/Middle Eastern muslims will grow to the point that they no longer identify with one another.

Yeah, moderates have to do more than just repeat "nothing to do with Islam" everytime this happens. But I don't have high hopes on this front.

It is very incomprehensible, but it seems we're facing generations of young muslim men -- born and raised in Europe -- who despise the societies they live in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyBBNQPPoXU

The reason why is probably not straightforward, though I definitely think the divisive and hateful teachings of the Qu'ran play a role.

The clip you posted perfectly illustrates the problem. If so many young Muslims see these perpetrators of violence as heros, it is inevitable that many of them will become violent themselves.

The future of Europe isn't exactly rosy after recent attacks in Paris and Copenhagen, the chances for future attacks is practically guaranteed.
My personal opinion is that this is the fault of political correct parties that continue to defend this kind of deeds and faith.
I say as it is, it's a particularly ridiculous belief and tremendously violent, suppressive and definitely not up to date.
Europe is mainly in the west and north rather atheist and Muslims find this kind of people ... unworthy. They are not seen as a human being by many of them. But not only the invasion of Islam worries me, also on ecology in Europe, which is definitely a disaster in my country.
Crowded, no respect for nature, the total extermination of animals in left over forests ... People in this part of Europe are not put to things other than themselves, and I fear for both nature and animals in Europe.
Europe is overpopulated and the influx of other countries doesn't help because their culture/faith demands many babies ... this leads to overcrowding ... and now it's just one big disaster while governments encourage this. In other words, disastrous.

In Germany multiculturalism has been already been abandoned. I agree with Pumpkin, I think future attacks are a guarantee. However I also think that multiculturalism isn't for every country, some just are going to work & thats okay IMO.

In the past I have aligned myself with left-wing liberal parties, but their stance on Islam and Muslim immigration means I can no longer do that. White guilt, self-blame and political correctness have become too pervasive on the left. They are no longer in touch with reality, and their phobia of dealing with the root of the problem is bordering on suicidal. For an example of how bad things can turn when you live under self-censorship and political correctness, just look towards Sweden.

It seems that a large percentage of Muslim immigrants don't embrace Western values at all, and instead just use the principles of a liberal democracy to try and undermine it. There have been multiple polls on what views European Muslims hold, and the results are all disturbing. But what can you really do when you are born into a totalitarian, fascistic ideology that harshly punishes dissent?

In Denmark, even mainstream liberal parties suggest stopping immigration from specifically Muslim countries. Ideally, apostates of Islam would still be welcomed, but I do not know how to enforce that in practice.

Another issue is how a liberal society should deal with Islam. I am torn on this subject, though I think mosques that have been proven to promote terrorism, holy war, killing of jews, etc. should be shut down as those things are directly against our constitution. We have witnessed astonishing inacation against the most hate-mongering imams and mosques in my country.

If only religion & the plane didn't exist.

[quote="Sakana"]For an example of how bad things can turn when you live under self-censorship and political correctness, just look towards Sweden./quote]

Sakana, kindly clarify this and how Denmark differs from Sweden in this regard

They differ from all European countries, not just Denmark. Well, England also seems to be on board the political correctness/multiculturalism train, but it's much, much worse in Sweden.

I believe they are the European country that takes in most immigrants each year, and at such a rate that some consider it an ongoing ethnic cleansing of the native Swedish population. Sweden has also become the country in Europe where most rapes occur. This change has happened in the last 20 years. I don't think they keep track of the ethnicity of rapists in Sweden anymore (political correctness reasons), but in Denmark we do. At one point 66% of rapes in Copenhagen were committed by immigrants, which is an insane number considering how few immigrants there are relative to our native population. My own personal theory is that immigrants from conservative Islamic countries hold the word of the Qur'an much higher than any man-made laws. Following that logic, unveiled women are basically asking to be abused. I recently read a case where immigrants from Afghanistan raped a woman, and had commented that they didn't understand why they had done anything wrong.

But In Sweden it's taboo to say anything bad about immigrants. They censor their news media to such a degree that you'll rarely hear if a given crime was committed by an ethnic/religious minority. On the other hand, if it was a white native Swede who did something bad, you can be sure to see lots of pictures and hear everything about it.

The mentality is basically this: if minorities ever do anything bad, it's always because of white people's racism, white people's lack of tolerance, white people's failure to integrate immigrants properly, white people's history of colonialism and oppression, blah, blah, blah.

The latest I heard was that they had plans to rename their bird names, because some were considered "offensive". The legendary books and movies about 'Pippi Longstocking' have also been censored in order to not offend ethnic minorities. They also have plans to enforce gender neutrality in their culture, so words for "he" and "she" might be gone soon.

All in all, I'm just watching in astonishment as Sweden is slowly but surely becoming some kind of strange totalitarian, self-hating, thought-policing country.

Here's a clip that shows some of the insanity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBYTsSQ3aA0