Philosophical Vegan Forum

*So you may be wondering why this is under the atheist vs theist debates.. well, unless you've been living under a rock the argument that homosexuality is wrong is made by conservative christians, which is why it's going here. without any further ado, let's get into todays topic. Plus I have no other idea for a topic

From time to time again, I always see some bigoted jackholes who say that homosexuality is "unnatural" and is condemed by God. Well, let's look at this argument. Here are counter arguments against this claim.

1. First off, this argument uses the Appeal To Nature fallacy, which is a fallacy that states that if something is not natural, it's wrong and immoral.
2. While we're on that, homosexuality is found in most animals. Here is a list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_an ... l_behavior So it's not only in humans, but in other animal species, and humans are indeed animals! So humans can't have a monopoly on homosexuality if it's found in most animals! Other species don't have the capacity to make certain choices (They still can, just not like humans can
3. Pretty much everyday you use something that isn't natural, and is manmade and produced.
For Instance
Clothes
TV
Computers
Phones
School
Internet
Shoes
Google+
The Avengers
XBOX
The Bible
Answers In Genesis

The list goes on and on.

4. Even if it's unnatural, WHO CARES!? Who gives a fuck??!I'm sure you have more important economic things to worry about. Why is it your top priority to make sure where someone puts their dick, it just doesn't make any sense. If this is more important to things like starvation, poverty, homelessness, war, famine disease, etc. then I pity the precious resources you consume by living on this earth, you selfish douchebag. I know it sounds harsh, but hey, if there's anything I've learned, the truth fucking hurts.

Thanks for reading my stupid topic. Have you ever come across stupid idiots like this?
folwo meh awn twidr- https://twitter.com/RedAppleJp321

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jrh8VVwMI4

I like this video; it makes some good points.

1) It's an appeal to nature.
2) Nothing is really "natural".
3) Many religious people really believe their god is unnatural.
4) Homosexuality is found in animals.
5) Many people do things considered "unnatural".

fuck accidentaly submitted it.. I'm editing it right now

Yeah, I pretty much completely agree with the above posts. I agree that it is natural for sure, but something I find quite funny is how people use whether something being natural or not actually means more than it does on whether it's moral or acceptable. Even if it was unnatural, I'd look to whether it was harmful or not, and to what ways and degrees so, in any attempt to actually judge it.

The way I see it is as long as it's consensual between all people partaking in it for its whole duration, as well as the certain measures needed to try to mitigate any chances of STDs being transferred are taken, then it's really completely harmless, and would probably be a positive experience for the people doing it. I don't really see it as any different ethically to straight sex, since those same things apply exactly as well to straight sex, so if someone has an issue with it, their view of homosexuality seems to me like it must be skewed in some way.

^ note: Heterosexual intercourse is actually more problematic in the sense of the risk of producing an unwanted child.

Homosexuals aren't the ones having all of the abortions (if one cared about that; though a fetus being non-sentient, at least early on, makes that less relevant than the unwanted children being born and having to cope with the lack of parents or a stable home).

brimstoneSalad wrote:^ note: Heterosexual intercourse is actually more problematic in the sense of the risk of producing an unwanted child.

Homosexuals aren't the ones having all of the abortions (if one cared about that; though a fetus being non-sentient, at least early on, makes that less relevant than the unwanted children being born and having to cope with the lack of parents or a stable home).

Wow, I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that at the time I was making my earlier post, and that's definitely another thing to consider, for sure.

If normal precautions are taken, heterosexuals aren't going to be having abortions. Unless you believe in the whole virgin birth thing or some crime is committed, getting pregnant is a choice, since it's entirely avoidable and not mysterious at all. Personally I think abortion is a poor birth control choice, but nevertheless should be a choice. I think comments like homosexual relations don't lead to abortions are needlessly inflammatory, being a plain stupid fact. Birth control and STDs are related to sex and sure homosexuals don't need to worry about the former. Both these issues can be properly and easily managed and prevented. Wear condoms with strangers.
Being homosexual is safer for a women, less discrimination, less STD spreading. Death during child birth has killed a lot more people than death due to scissoring.
I think homosexual activity is only unnatural if the people doing it want to think it's unnatural. Nothing wrong with wanting to feel dirty and weird. Perhaps they like thinking that or perhaps they just need to adjust to their choices. Either way, I don't really care what people choose to do in their beds, and hope they are happy. We don't actually need to have sex with anyone to survive from an individual standpoint and even if 50% of the word is gay, there will still be enough people around to reproduce and keep up the numbers for human survival.
I take natural to mean not supernatural or artificial. Natural vs unnatural debate is kind of weird. I'll take unnatural to mean weird or abnormal. What's weird for one person is probably completely normal to another. Sure something I've never experienced or don't want to is unnatural for me, but there are no absolutes here. I think margarine and spam are unnatural and chose to abstain from this, however I don't criticize others who do. Unlike eating, sex isn't inherently dangerous. Diseases and pregnancy can be, but unless it's some extreme stuff, the act of sex is fairly safe.

Sadly this isn't an purely conservative christian issue. I live in germany where many of not most people are atheists. Many people call themselves cathlic or protestant, but if you ask them what they believe they say they don't believe in a god, just their parents where cathlic/protestant and thus they are aswell. Non the less, many conservative atheists here think homosexuality is unnatural, icky, or plain wrong. Sure its like 1 in 5 which is probably far better than in conservative christians. Still very sad.

RedAppleGP wrote:*So you may be wondering why this is under the atheist vs theist debates.. well, unless you've been living under a rock the argument that homosexuality is wrong is made by conservative christians, which is why it's going here. without any further ado, let's get into todays topic. Plus I have no other idea for a topic

From time to time again, I always see some bigoted jackholes who say that homosexuality is "unnatural" and is condemed by God. Well, let's look at this argument. Here are counter arguments against this claim.

1. First off, this argument uses the Appeal To Nature fallacy, which is a fallacy that states that if something is not natural, it's wrong and immoral.
2. While we're on that, homosexuality is found in most animals. Here is a list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_an ... l_behavior So it's not only in humans, but in other animal species, and humans are indeed animals! So humans can't have a monopoly on homosexuality if it's found in most animals! Other species don't have the capacity to make certain choices (They still can, just not like humans can
3. Pretty much everyday you use something that isn't natural, and is manmade and produced.
For Instance
Clothes
TV
Computers
Phones
School
Internet
Shoes
Google+
The Avengers
XBOX
The Bible
Answers In Genesis

The list goes on and on.

4. Even if it's unnatural, WHO CARES!? Who gives a fuck??!I'm sure you have more important economic things to worry about. Why is it your top priority to make sure where someone puts their dick, it just doesn't make any sense. If this is more important to things like starvation, poverty, homelessness, war, famine disease, etc. then I pity the precious resources you consume by living on this earth, you selfish douchebag. I know it sounds harsh, but hey, if there's anything I've learned, the truth fucking hurts.

Thanks for reading my stupid topic. Have you ever come across stupid idiots like this?
folwo meh awn twidr- https://twitter.com/RedAppleJp321

Okay maybe athiests think Homosexuality is natural but that doesnt justify it just because animals like to have homosexuality like homosexuals doesnt mean its right! Animals also like to RAPE other animals, tell me Mr. Athiest, does that justify RAPE!?!?!?!?!?!? Now on point Number 4 i must say that is the same argumants meat eaters like to say when approaching me a vegan they say thinks like this!!!?:
Oh hai der look i know you want to have a veggie bruger but y not a bacons burger??! Arent there moar important thinks 2 worry about like starvation, poverty, homelessness, war, famine disease, etc. rather than bacons???"
So y r u not a meat eater in that case?
GOD BLESS U SIR AND PLEASE EXCEPT JESUS!!!

Jesus Christ is Hard wrote: Okay maybe athiests think Homosexuality is natural but that doesnt justify it just because animals like to have homosexuality like homosexuals doesnt mean its right!

Whatever that means.

Jesus Christ is Hard wrote:Athiests also like to RAPE other animals, tell me Mr. Athiest, does that justify RAPE!?!?!?!?!?!?

I don't know what your average atheist does on their own time, but FYI bestiality is gross. And illegal, I guess. Not to mention a good chunk of atheists on this forum are vegan, including yours truly. oh, and you too.

Jesus Christ is Hard wrote:Now on point Number 4 i must say that is the same argumants meat eaters like to say when approaching me a vegan they say thinks like this!!!?:
Oh hai der look i know you want to have a veggie bruger but y not a bacons burger??! Arent there moar important thinks 2 worry about like starvation, poverty, homelessness, war, famine disease, etc. rather than bacons???"
So y r u not a meat eater in that case?

You're representing a strawman here. Sure eating meat is natural (to a degree, mind you), but it's immoral, especially when you have access to other resources and food supplies. Homosexuality is not immoral, love who you love. Maybe to you, if you even are a Christian. or a vegan, for that matter. W8 M8, why are you even Vegan? Have you ever read the bible bruh? Please refer to Corinthians 10:25, if I'm not mistaken.

Jesus Christ is Hard wrote: GOD BLESS U SIR AND PLEASE EXCEPT JESUS!!!

Well I think I had enough fun with a troll for one day.