Greetings

[GeorgeNorge]

I've been vegan for 3 years now and am interested in discussing ethics particuarly as they relate to veganism:)

[thebestofenergy]

Hello George, welcome!

Feel free to start a discussion of any topic you want.

What gave you the push to go vegan?

[Red]

Welcome George!
What in regards to ethics are you interested in particular?

[GeorgeNorge]

In short, my reason for being vegan was basically the anti-speciesist arguments that Singer argues for in animal liberation, that is, human life is of moral value, animals don’t differ from humans in the way that matters with respect to our assigning moral value to humans (namely sentience), therefore they have moral value too.
I’ve been vegan for 3 years now but have come under fire from a friend who is much better read on ethics than I am and so I’m struggling to defend my position. I feel that it’s the case that this is because they are significantly better read when it comes to ethics than I am, rather than because they are actually correct, as their line of reasoning seems to justify positions that to me seem absurd, but they argue that because I cannot reason as to why that is the case and must rely on appealing to intution that my position is therefore not justified, but like I said I feel that it's the case that I just don't have to tools in my ethical toolkit to explain why I think they're wrong. So I was basically hoping that some of the nice people on here might be able to lend a hand, so I'm trying to write up a steelman of my friends arguments and then I'll post them up.

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome George,

So I was basically hoping that some of the nice people on here might be able to lend a hand, so I'm trying to write up a steelman of my friends arguments and then I'll post them up.

You came to the right place, we'd be happy to.

We tend to see three broad categories of objection:

-That veganism is a virtue but not an obligation (IOW the "I don't have to go vegan but it's nice that you are")

-That morality either doesn't exists or is subjective/culturally relative, so in X context (or generally) veganism has no moral value.

-That morality is based on social contract between rational agents, so a claim of objectivity, but that non-human animals don't count for lack of being rational (and then giving babies a pass because "potential", and inexplicably mandating all "rational agents" arbitrarily defined be included in the social contract).


I get the sense that you're probably dealing with social contract claims, that morality is an agreement between rational agents or something like this.
I look forward to seeing the steel man, we should be able to point out the errors your friend is making and link you to some resources.

[Red]

@GeorgeNorge I think it would be also good to clarify which moral theory you're taking; Are you arguing from a consequentialist perspective or a deontological one?

Please clarify all of this in the post you make, it'll help us get to the root of the matter and help address your friend's argument. Hell if possible, maybe you can even invite them here to discuss.