Philosophical Vegan Forum

I never know what to say in introductions, so I guess I'll keep it simple. My name is Richard, but I go by Chipdip, I've been of the atheist mindset for a good portion of my life, though I've struggled with it and trying to figure things out. About a year ago I tried being vegetarian for about four months, but at the time I didn't stick with it because I felt I had no conviction to it. I pretty much forced myself to ignore certain things and insisted that due to being a natural omnivore I should eat meat. I've recently started looking into veganism and forced myself to really open my eyes. It's only been about two days since I have made the choice to be vegan. I'm happy to found a place to have others to talk to and get advice from. I look forward to talking to others and getting to know people here.

Welcome Richard,

Congrats on going vegan! We'll help you out with any info you need.

Conviction is definitely important for making the switch, and solid knowledge of the logical arguments can make all the difference.

How do you struggle with atheism?

Thanks, that is very appreciated.

Well, like a lot of people, I grew up around religious influence. Sometimes I feel like I should try to believe and have faith, but a rather innate habit of questioning things, wanting evidence, and the such has always made it hard. Most of the times I feel like I should try to believe just because I know it's what people that mean a lot to me wants. But I've always felt like and considered myself a logical person and logic always brings me back to atheism. I guess most of it is never feeling right with religions and the feeling of the lack of like minded people to talk to.

Also I have a great dislike of pushiness and I've known a few people that called themselves atheists that were just as pushy as religious people.

Welcome Richard,

Glad to hear that you decided to go vegan. This forum is full of members who would be more than happy to help you if you ever want advice (food ideas, info about health/environmental/ethical reasons to be vegan, info on how to deal with common social issues faced by vegans).

Do you like to cook and bake? I enjoy preparing all sorts of exquisite vegan meals and baked goods. If you like to bake I can recommend pies, cookies, brownies, etc. in vegan form. You can easily find recipes for them on the internet, and/or ask members on this forum.

If you want to replace any meat or dairy products that you used to consume: Trader Joe's has chicken, ground beef, milk, butter, yogurt, cheese, cream cheese, and ice cream all in vegan form. Keep in mind though that you can be healthy without any vegan imitations of animal products; they're luxuries, not necessities. Personally I enjoy vegan versions of dairy products and consume them frequently, but I almost never eat fake meat. I very highly recommend Soy-Creamy if you haven't tried it before. It's the most delicious and affordable vegan ice cream that I know of. If you don't live near a Trader Joe's, then you can likely find similar products at other grocery stores (definitely Safeway and Whole Foods).

To find tasty recipes I'd recommend:
-www.findingvegan.com
-VegWeb.com
-CookingWithPlants (YouTube channel)
-The Vegan Zombie (YouTube channel)
-Vegan Black Metal Chef (YouTube channel)

ChipDipSM wrote: Also I have a great dislike of pushiness and I've known a few people that called themselves atheists that were just as pushy as religious people.

I'm going to have to quote Penn for a moment here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owZc3Xq8obk

Penn Jillette wrote:“And I’ve always said, you know, that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and hell, and people could be going to hell or NOT getting eternal life, or whatever, and you think that uh well it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward —and atheists who think that people shouldn't proselytize, "Just leave me alone keep your religion to yourself"— uh, how much do you have to hate somebody to NOT proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?
I mean, if I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you, and you didn't believe it —that truck was bearing down on you— there's a certain point I'd tackle you, and this is MORE important than that.

It doesn't have to be irrational to shout something from the rooftops. If anything is important, to the world, to others, to individuals, then it makes sense to say it.
If you think religion and non-religion are really the same thing in the end -- that religion doesn't cause wars or promote fundamentalism or terrorism or anything like that, or that science and science education and critical thinking just isn't important -- then sure, it could be confusing why anybody would want to argue about it or try to deconvert people away from religion.
Likewise, if you just think the 'pushy' methods are ineffective (which is an empirical question), then you might try something else.

But, if you believe it does good -- that these methods are both effective, and one way of thinking is actually better than another -- what's wrong with it? Of course, it's socially awkward, but that's pretty much the definition of a first world problem. In the free market place of ideas, don't we need people to put forward concepts like these so they can be discussed, criticized, and -- if they're illogical, irrational, and harmful -- smashed to pieces?

Here's a discussion of Penn's argument, which has a couple interesting posts:
http://www.quora.com/What-do-atheists-a ... roselytize

And here's a thread here, about whether it's useful or not to criticize religion:
http://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewto ... f=11&t=803

I think we may be naturally inclined to dislike pushiness, because it makes us feel socially uncomfortable, but is it really wrong? Shouldn't society be pushy against things that are really harmful?
The more important question, I think, is identifying what is or isn't harmful.

Welcome ChipDipSM

ChipDipSM wrote:due to being a natural omnivore I should eat meat.

What makes you think you are more omnivorous than herbivorous?

BrimstoneSalad, thank you for that post and the links. I guess what I meant by 'pushiness' is actually the use of fallacies by people. I've honestly only just recently started paying more attention to this and looking into it.

Jebus, from what I've come to understand I was referring to the Nature Fallacy. I was told we have sharp teeth for a reason, to tear meat. If nature gave us sharp teeth then we should use them. It wasn't until I caught myself arguing that we don't need meat, or other animal products, to get the nutrients that we need that I started to question this.

Welcome ChipDipSM, nice to see another vegan atheist on the forum!