Philosophical Vegan Forum

RedAppleGP wrote:So I'm an atheist, and you would most likely expect for me to watch atheist youtubers. Well guess what I don't.

brimstoneSalad wrote:I wouldn't expect that.

Well I was being sarcastic And I said most likely, so the joke's on you.

brimstoneSalad wrote:Like you said, the vast majority are just preaching to the choir, and most of them are idiots, providing piss poor arguments.
Theism is very, very low hanging fruit, and yet they still fumble trying to reach for it.
I've commented on TJ extensively.

yeah, like I said in my addendum, they think they are sooo inteligent when it comes to stuff like atheism, but when you think about it, it's pretty easy to understand. the only requirement is to not believe in God and to have an appetite to criticize religion, and then it goes on from there. i can tell i was pretty militant new atheist myself, and I thought I was smart for now believing in God. Not to mention it's kinda low to criticize religion with that mindset.

brimstoneSalad wrote:I almost want to make a poe theist account and just troll them with arguments that will melt their brains, since I'm pretty sure they'd be unable to respond coherently to a real challenge.
But that would be counterproductive.

That does sound fun, but that sounds like something I would do, so don't do that.

RedAppleGP wrote:Why? Because I think I've seen everything there is religious-wise. It also applies to veganism.

brimstoneSalad wrote:Superficially, I would say probably so. People like JaclynGlenn will have nothing to offer on the intellectual side.
There IS actually good and intriguing philosophical content out there, but it's very hard to find because people don't promote it much.
The issue is most people are too dumb to understand it and so don't find it interesting; fewer likes, fewer favorites, fewer subscribers, shares, comments, whatever. Visibility on youtube is a democracy ruled by morons. It's what happens.Dawkins doesn't do many debates, although Harris is still interested in these discussions, so you may find some of his debates with the more intelligent theists interesting. Dennett is pretty quiet too. And of course Hitchens did what he did...
Your best bet is to stick with the science related channels that rarely talk about atheism.

Yeah I also meant not very thouroughly. And people like JaclynGlenn, like I said, offer the same arguments that have been said hundreds of times before. And YouTube doesn't promote that stuff because the masses have the attention span of a 3 year old, and can't be bothered to watch such thought provoking material, which doesn't allow them to make much money. For the more popular YouTubers (not all of them, but usually the ones that have 100,000-1,000,000 subs), the only thing that matters is lots of views and lots of likes. Principles? New arguments to bring to the table? Hmmm nah. I would watch more debates, but like I said, I have lost much interest. Maybe every now and again, but I'd rather watch debates from people that aren't arrogant (COUGH Richard Dawkins COUGH). But I still don't take interest because of reasons like the imperialistic new atheism of Christopher Hitchens, who attempted to justify the Iraq War, or Pat Condell and his conservative bigotry. I know these aren't things that should make me not want to watch debates, but these small nitpicks matter to me.

And I screwed up the quotes again.. dammit.

RedAppleGP wrote:Pat Condell and his conservative bigotry

What?

EquALLity wrote:

RedAppleGP wrote:Pat Condell and his conservative bigotry

What?

This guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMuLbW-DidY

I like to say he has "old man syndrome" Hehe.
[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... n+syndrome]

He's a supporter of UKIP - A right-wing British political party that wants to isolate Britain from the EU, change the humans right act to allow discrimination in favor of British people, and is full of many racist bigots...

Kyron wrote:

EquALLity wrote:

RedAppleGP wrote:Pat Condell and his conservative bigotry

What?

This guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMuLbW-DidY

I like to say he has "old man syndrome" Hehe.
[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... n+syndrome]

He's a supporter of UKIP - A right-wing British political party that wants to isolate Britain from the EU, change the humans right act to allow discrimination in favor of British people, and is full of many racist bigots...

Actually, Pat Condell didn't title that video (see how it wasn't posted by him?); someone else posted a copy of it and used a different title from the original, and Pat said that he didn't mind people sharing his videos but that he'd wish they didn't change the titles in response.

The original video is 'Islam in the Workplace'.

He supports UKIP, yeah, but not because he's a bigot. See my post on this topic- https://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewt ... f=11&t=496

Here are some of his quotes about his reasons for voting for UKIP, and about how he doesn't support all UKIP policies:

Pat Condell wrote: Being a member of the European Parliament is like driving a car from the passenger seat with a toy steering wheel. They're not allowed to initiate legislation. It's all decided for them in advance by a panel of commissioners who haven't been elected by anybody. All Parliament can do is say yes or no. If it's no, they just keep bringing it back until it's yes. It's the way they have to do everything in the European Union because they don't actually have the consent of the people they purport to govern. And this means that our laws in Britain are made by people who have not been elected and can't be removed by popular vote. Dictatorship by any other name.

Pat Condell wrote:Personally, I'll be voting for the UK Independence Party. You may not agree with all of their policies (I certainly don't) but if you believe, as I do, that nothing is more important politically than government by consent, there is literally nobody else in Britain to vote for.

Pat Condell wrote:And it's costing us more than fifty million pounds a day to suit them, their careers, and their pensions.

Pat Condell wrote:So, in a nutshell, I'm voting for self-determination and against the multicultural left and every ugly cowardly little thing it stands for, and I'm not really paying very much attention to any of the other policies. They can all wait until the basics are fixed.

Pat Condell wrote:Of course I don't agree with all UKIP policies any more than I do with any other party, so no, I'm not voting for climate change scepticism or for homeopathy or for antidisestablishmentarianism - try saying that with a mouthful of marbles. I'm voting for something that isn't on offer from any of the other parties because it's a bit too democratic for them and because they know very well what the outcome would be. I'm voting for a principle that would resonate with the authors of the American Constitution, one of the greatest documents ever written, the right of the people to decide who governs them, a right that has been taken away from us without permission, and that I want to see restored.

@EquALLity But if you watch the video that the YouTuber posted, Pat is making claims such as muslims that pray in the workplace are looking for attention, and that muslims think that are entitled to certain privileges in the workplace. Sure, the title is misleading, but the basic premise is that Condell seems to mock the muslim workers (or those who are looking for work), and says that they will get jobs as soon as they stop feeling entitled.

Say brimstone, y'know how you said that you had some arguments for the atheist youtubers to melt their brains? Do you mind giving me some of those arguments (IF YA' WANNA, YA' DON'T GOTTA)? I don't have many to use, and I can really use them whenever some new atheist crosses by me, and I'm willing to make them look like morons.

The only atheist youtubers that I watch consistently are the vegan atheist, Darkmatter2525, and grappling ignorance. All of the other channels have either lost their charm, or they are intentionally condescending.

RedAppleGP wrote:Say brimstone, y'know how you said that you had some arguments for the atheist youtubers to melt their brains? Do you mind giving me some of those arguments (IF YA' WANNA, YA' DON'T GOTTA)? I don't have many to use, and I can really use them whenever some new atheist crosses by me, and I'm willing to make them look like morons.

I might, but it's not quite that easy to give an argument to somebody.

Research the problem of evil, and theodicies. Atheist arguments based on there being evil in the world aren't very strong ones, since they are essentially arguments from incredulity, while some theodicies are moderately internally consistent (at least at first glance, if you accept the original premises of the deity [a thing that shouldn't be done]).

They are certainly arguments supporting the proposition for "why I don't believe in god" -- although almost anything would work there -- but are very poor at encouraging others not to do so from a rational perspective (these arguments are more appeal to emotion).

Alrighty, thanks! I'll use them when the time is right...