Philosophical Vegan Forum

brimstoneSalad wrote:I've seen the video and am mostly familiar with his views, but there are a couple problems:

1. He's basically espousing weak moral relativism, or indifference, and asking a question -- which is much different from making an argument against veganism. He's saying he doesn't know, and asking for replies.
Also, with regard to moral relativism, he does this sometimes with respect to religion too.
To best criticize him (rather than taking on relativism, which is not hard, but is harder to explain and communicate to an ignorant audience) we need to find a clear example of hypocrisy. Can you find some videos or written content by him that take a hard stance against immorality in some regard, rather than a "this is harmful to us" stance?
Or find some hard claims supporting moral relativism somewhere, in order to address that directly (the less ideal approach)?

You've presented good points here. Hemant Mehta made it clear that he knows (at least some of) the ethical arguments behind veganism. He also made it clear that he does not care about whether or not people eat meat (even though he knows the ethical reasons not to). Initially I thought that this was an example of hypocrisy (and therefore firm ground for criticism), but upon further examination I realize that there are some problems with this.

Mr. Mehta has not stated whether or not he:
-cares about living in an ethical manner (in the hypothetical case that he agrees that animal use/consumption is unethical). I assume he does care about being ethical, but he did not explicitly state this in the video in question.
-agrees with the ethical arguments behind veganism (understanding and agreeing are two different things).
-would feel that people other than himself are obligated to be vegan (in the hypothetical case that he himself has concluded animal use/consumption to be unethical)

brimstoneSalad wrote:2. There's not really much content there. Again, it's mostly just questions. It's not usually nice to jump on somebody for asking an honest question (and I think that was an honest question).
He admitted animals suffer for food, he admitted it's healthier. And then he asked why on the moral or philosophical front.
Can you find more, where he has discussed this in other videos, comments, or articles? He seems to avoid the topic. With Matt Dillahunty, he avoids the topic too, but we had that gem to work with in the Atheist Experience show, where he made a number of actual irrational claims.

We could try to address this in another open letter, but we'd need more to go on.

I agree with everything that you've said here. Unfortunately I have not yet found more; Mr. Mehta seems to avoid discussing animal ethics. I have only ever found that one video of his about vegetarianism. As far as I know this is his only video in which he utters the words "vegetarian" and "vegan."

Thanks again for your insight brimstoneSalad. I realize now that I was too eager to present my objections to this video by Mr. Mehta, seeing as how it did not have sufficient material for ample criticism. I'll do my best to be more discerning in the future. Rest assured I will let you know if I witness Mr. Mehta express more clearly his views on animal ethics.

Thanks, if you find more, please let us know.

It may be worth writing a letter to him, but it would be more of a friendly "hey, FYI", in answer to the questions he asked, rather than a smack-down.

Recently, I came across DarkMatter2525's videos. Man, they are funny and thoughtful!

They will come in handy for me......

I recently stopped watching all popular, but in my opinion juvenile atheist channels, except for TVA's videos on veganism and Dillahunty's project. Most of the videos on atheism are completely uninteresting to me. It might be great for young people who feel alone in their atheism and are searching for meaning/support on YouTube, but information-wise it's completely irrelevant (with exception to Dillahunty). Most of them claim to be very rational and logical, though they're seldom demonstrating it to be the case. I also don't like how it has progressed with regards to side-projects like making a big deal about pseudo-feminism.

I won't discourage anyone else from from watching, but I'm really done with it.

Volenta wrote:I recently stopped watching all popular, but in my opinion juvenile atheist channels, except for TVA's videos on veganism and Dillahunty's project. Most of the videos on atheism are completely uninteresting to me. It might be great for young people who feel alone in their atheism and are searching for meaning/support on YouTube, but information-wise it's completely irrelevant (with exception to Dillahunty). Most of them claim to be very rational and logical, though they're seldom demonstrating it to be the case. I also don't like how it has progressed with regards to side-projects like making a big deal about pseudo-feminism.

I won't discourage anyone else from from watching, but I'm really done with it.

Same with me for the most part, I find that I've lost interest in these popular atheist channels for the most part (I'm not sure if I'll avoid them entirely, but I've certainly lost interest). I will probably still watch all of TheVeganAtheist's new videos, because he still offers truely interesting criticism in all of his videos, and is open-minded enough to stay rational on all topics, not just those that suit him.

It's saddening how closed-minded many of these atheists are towards the topic of veganism. It seems rather hypocritical how they criticize religious people for being irrational and/or intellectually dishonest, and yet make criticisms of veganism that are either dishonest or largely based on ignorance. Matt Dillahunty is no exception to this.

ArmouredAbolitionist wrote:It's saddening how closed-minded many of these atheists are towards the topic of veganism. It seems rather hypocritical how they criticize religious people for being irrational and/or intellectually dishonest, and yet make criticisms of veganism that are either dishonest or largely based on ignorance. Matt Dillahunty is no exception to this.

A lot of YouTubers are making a fool out of themselves by—but in no regards limited to—trying to take on veganism in the way they do. It is sadly true for Dillahunty on the topic of veganism (and maybe other subjects as well), but I do think his Atheist Debates-series is a valuable contribution worth watching.

I haven't seen one of my favorites in this list so I'll add it here. The Bible Skeptic.
https://www.youtube.com/user/brettppalmer
He seems to put in a lot of research into his topics and videos. The production quality has gotten rather good as well.

Don't forget Thunderf00t.

brimstoneSalad wrote:To best criticize him we need to find a clear example of hypocrisy. Can you find some videos or written content by him that take a hard stance against immorality in some regard, rather than a "this is harmful to us" stance?

Hemant Mehta is a calm, charismatic, and (mostly) rational man. He has quite a lot of viewers, and so I think it would be great if he ever started advocating veganism, or at least firmly admitted that he cannot think of any ethical justification for using/consuming animal products. I recently came across this new video of his and just the title made my heart leap. It was really great to hear him express condemnation of trophy hunting, and I wonder if he would be open to the idea of going vegan. Perhaps an opportunity has turned up for TheVeganAtheist to do a video reply or at least send him an open letter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgcqWiC ... NTA4MjAxNQ

One thing that bothers me about this video: I'm not sure if Hemant is trying to clearly express condemnation of needless killing. Maybe it's more of an emotional response? Hemant expresses disgust at the concept of trophy hunting, and says that he can't understand why someone would enjoy doing it. Perhaps he is responding emotionally and does not condemn trophy hunting on purely ethical grounds? I don't know. If he really does consider needless killing of any animals to be unethical, then perhaps this would be a good opportunity for TheVeganAtheist to encourage him to go vegan.

I agree. Didn't we have a thread on him?